Premier League 2019-20 Assignments and Discussion [Rs]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by balu, Jul 20, 2019.

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  1. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Pawson and Atkinson each get one of those matches with both relegation and European implications.

    It would have been interesting to see how the Man City-Liverpool assigning would have changed if Liverpool already had the title wrapped up. It makes complete sense to have Taylor on this game because a Liverpool win seals the title and Oliver had the match at Anfield. However, even a Man City win probably just delays the inevitable for a game or two. Oliver has a match with important relegation impact for Watford, but I'd say Southampton is probably safe save for a pretty major collapse.
     
  2. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I get your expectations premise but I disagree with your conclusion. Maupay leads with his shoulder -- he's not trying to win the ball. Rather he's trying to put one in on the keeper and in a situation that I think is more dangerous than you're positing, ie., a player jumping but unable to steady, balance, or brace himself with his arms following the contact. Given such circumstances, I think it's reasonable to expect a booking. Yeah, I get why we should be loathe to compare footy with other sports, but it's interesting that both American football and rugby both protect "defenseless players" in similar situations.

    Anyway, I won't belabor the issue any more. I lurk here often because the signal to noise ratio is really good, and I learn a lot. No disrespect meant to anyone.
     
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  3. Ickshter

    Ickshter Member+

    Manchester City
    Mar 14, 2014
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    LOL, since when is a keeper a "defenseless player?" Usually it is the forward getting rocked by a keeper who was "just going for the ball" I am mostly just kidding about that I just got a chuckle the way it was phrased. I would agree with SoCal in this instance, not a foul at this level, but I am usually calling it in a youth match.
     
  4. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Yes its a foul at this level. But at this level, IMO, a caution is not expected (though don't have to get much worse to get to a caution).
     
  5. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    The Cahill hold of Virgil in the 27’ has to be called. Virgil is trying to head the ball and there are two arms around his waist preventing him from getting proper height.
    Make the call.
     
  6. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    Come on. That’s the second missed PK. Clear handling. He reached right up and stopped it
     
  7. SCV-Ref

    SCV-Ref Member

    Spurs
    Australia
    Feb 22, 2018
    What match and when? I want to look it up.
     
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  8. mathguy ref

    mathguy ref Member+

    Nov 15, 2016
    TX
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    It was LIV-CP today in the 1H. The CP defender (Cahill I think) had his arm up parallel to the ground at shoulder height and the ball got hit right up into it. He appeared to be shocked that it wasn’t called. It’s the PL so who knows what they thought of it.
     
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  9. SCV-Ref

    SCV-Ref Member

    Spurs
    Australia
    Feb 22, 2018
    Many thanks... it was in the 35th min at 34 min 33 sec for anyone's reference.
    And yeah...shocked it wasn't called.
     
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  10. frankieboylampard

    Mar 7, 2016
    USA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    I’m surprised VAR didn’t catch it either.. but then again VAR in the Prem.
     
  11. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
  12. pr0ner

    pr0ner Member+

    Jan 13, 2007
    Alexandria, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh, Guendouzi is getting zero games. The FA said the referees didn't see it, but the VAR reviewed it and didn't see anything worthy of bringing to the referee's attention.
     
  13. djmtxref

    djmtxref Member

    Apr 8, 2013
    It looks like Arteta "suspended" Guendouzi. Maybe he agrees with Mathguy.
     
  14. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    VAR just reached a new level of farcical in England and no one really noticed....

    De Bruyne takes studs into the shins on the follow-through of a challenge, which occurs in his attacking penalty area. No foul and no penalty is given. Okay. So VAR checks for a possible red card as the challenge could have been serious foul play.

    Check complete, no red card.

    Again, okay.

    But if it was possibly a red card... isn't it, you know, clearly and obviously a foul?

    I'm asking rhetorically. It was 100% a foul and absolutely a penalty. Understandably missed, but how VAR can check for a red card, likely determine "well, that's only clearly a yellow, at most," and then not even touch the question of foul/penalty... well, welcome too VAR in the EPL.
     
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  15. mathguy ref

    mathguy ref Member+

    Nov 15, 2016
    TX
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    The foul was given. I was only half watching but I thought it was outside the area
     
  16. mathguy ref

    mathguy ref Member+

    Nov 15, 2016
    TX
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    VAR got that right. Fernandinho with the clear DOGSOH on the line.
     
  17. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It was?! I need to go back and look. I really didn't think it was.
     
  18. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It was not given. About 63:57 on the game clock. Ball went out for a throw-in immediately. That was the restart.
     
  19. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    And that's what VAR is for.
     
  20. mathguy ref

    mathguy ref Member+

    Nov 15, 2016
    TX
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Wow. You are right. I could have sworn it was a foul. What a miss.
     
  21. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    Not disagreeing with you, just trying to offer an explanation.

    This is similar to that ridiculous follow-through to the thigh a few years back that resulted in red card and pk.

    The defender plays the ball clearly and cleanly.
    His foot, however, has to come down somewhere.
    Unfortunately, it came down on De Bruyne's shin.

    But the question is, "Was the defender dangerous, or reckless, or even careless?"

    Hard to say. At the point of the play of the ball, he was not. The follow-through has to happen, but it is unfortunate that the two collide feet from the ball.

    It raises an interesting predicament. If a play wasn't careless when executed but became dangerous because the attacker and defender decide to land on the same spot, is it a foul --- the CR and VAR determined no foul.

    Just one of those scenarios where, if a foul, it's red, but there was no foul.
     
  22. Ickshter

    Ickshter Member+

    Manchester City
    Mar 14, 2014
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, sorry. I messed that up. Yes a foul at any level, but not a card at this level.
     
  23. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    FA Cup Quarterfinals

    Norwich City v Manchester United
    Referee: Jonathan Moss
    Assistant Referees: Edward Smart & Peter Kirkup
    Fourth Official: Andrew Madley
    Reserve Assistant: Lee Venamore
    VAR: Simon Hooper
    AVAR: Derek Eaton

    Sheffield United v Arsenal
    Referee: Paul Tierney
    Assistant Referees: Ian Hussin & Marc Perry
    Fourth Official: Robert Jones
    Reserve Assistant: Richard Wild
    VAR: Peter Bankes
    AVAR: Constantine Hatzidakis

    Leicester City v Chelsea
    Referee: Michael Dean
    Assistant Referees: Richard West & Harry Lennard
    Fourth Official: Darren England
    Reserve Assistant: Mark Jones
    VAR: Martin Atkinson
    AVAR: Darren Cann

    Newcastle United v Manchester City
    Referee: Lee Mason
    Assistant Referees: Scott Ledger & Adrian Holmes
    Fourth Official: Andrew Madley
    Reserve Assistant: Mark Dwyer
    VAR: Andre Marriner
    AVAR: Stephen Child
     
  24. mathguy ref

    mathguy ref Member+

    Nov 15, 2016
    TX
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    The EPL just did it again. Play is stopped for a little foul against Burnley when no advantage developed. During the play for advantage Jordan Ayew of CP throws an elbow. Check for possible red card for Violent Conduct against Jordan Ayew of CP. The check says no red card. CP kept the ball. So clear error check for a red card results in no actual foul called. So it went from “you may have missed a red card” to “no call at all”. Not a foul. Not a yellow. Just nothing.
     
  25. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This sounds like it worked correctly whether it's in England or any place else.

    If a red card isn't clear, then that's the end of the story from the VAR's perspective. In MLS and some other places, if a referee undertakes an OFR (so after recommendation from the VAR that there is a missed clear red card), then he could award a lower level of misconduct and give a yellow. But a VAR can't recommend a yellow. And you can't call a foul just because you considered a red card.

    The issue with the De Bruyne incident I brought up earlier in the thread was that the possible red card was also a possible penalty--so it should have been checked for both and, truly, should have been checked for the lower standard (penalty) first.
     
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  26. frankieboylampard

    Mar 7, 2016
    USA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    WHU v. CHE. Antonio of WHU is in an offside position VAR takes 3 mins to figure it out but its tough because Soucek is the one who takes a shot and scores. However, VAR correctly deemed it offside. I would wager to see if it was interfering with an opponent or if it was interfering with play because half his torso is in an onside position. Of course no bias here. lol
     

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