Premier League 2019-20 Assignments and Discussion [Rs]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by balu, Jul 20, 2019.

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  1. TheRealBilbo

    TheRealBilbo Member+

    Apr 5, 2016
    I must say I find handling a tough call to make, and tend towards no foul without clear ball to hand action. My understanding is that handling is called far more than it should be. At the recent recert, the instructors said it was called double what it should be, but I am not sure what they based that on... I wish I knew where they found that.

    Handling is a deliberate act, except where it scores a goal or leads to a goal scoring opportunity. This is where I feel the law is too strict. The disallowed Watford goal today is a good example. Dawson's arm was pinned to his side when the ball hit it. What more could he have done to avoid that ball-to-hand contact? And, it cost his team a needed goal.
     
  2. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    Thanks for that Mike Dean article. I loved "the tedium of constantly being 'booked' by beermat-brandishing pub-goers when trying to enjoy a night out with the wife."
     
  3. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    Listen to the Podcast if you can.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p06kyljg/episodes/downloads
    Very interesting and funny. Indicates the ignorance even of pro players to the demands and efforts as well as lifestyles of referees.

    PH
     
  4. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    I find it unfair, if not absurd, that different criteria are applied to HB by defenders and HB by attackers.
    It seems that they (the writers of the "New Laws" ) want to decrease goals for some infractions but increase them for others.
    And then the seemingly random nature of decisions made via the VAR for the HB incidents by defenders in the penalty area, as I have alluded to in previous posts.

    PH
     
  5. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The arm being away from the body when the Leicester defender turns versus the arm being perpendicular and adjacent to the face of De Bruyne is the hair-splitting that makes them different.

    Now, as I said, I agree that both should be PKs. I think in most other competitions they both would be. But if I'm sitting in a classroom, I would say 100% PK on the Leicester one without much thought. It would take me a couple seconds or so to reason and debate the De Bruyne one in my head. So is that the difference from "clearly wrong" and just wrong? Maybe!

    This is a very good point and one I hit on for awhile last season.

    It is obvious--through the LOTG changes and the use of VAR--that IFAB and FIFA want consistency on handballs to the point that it is a black and white decision where there can always be a "correct" answer. And if there is always a correct answer with a yes/no decision, then VAR can always be used to get that answer. Maybe they've just heard enough complaining about handballs for eons that they've given up and want to eliminate all nuance.

    I was of the opinion that the subjective nature of handling calls would lead to less intervention precisely because they are so debatable. But that's not where IFAB and FIFA want to go.

    That's bad enough, but when you couple it with a penchant for not intervening on SFP, where VARs seem to look to find a reason to say "well, that's not clearly wrong" (see EPL this past weekend), it becomes mind-boggling. Because it means competition authorities are using technology to make some of the most controversial decisions (handball in the penalty area--one that involves no violence or threat to player safety) MORE controversial and confusing, while simultaneously not using that technology to protect player safety one bit.

    I really don't know who wants this overall result. But it's where we are at right now.
     
    kolabear and Pierre Head repped this.
  6. TheRealBilbo

    TheRealBilbo Member+

    Apr 5, 2016
    It will be interesting to see what happens over the next year and a half. This EPL season has exposed problems with VAR and last year's law changes. I can understand not changing things mid-season. I'd also expect the EPL to not want VAR to be the story next year that it was this year.

    Over the summer, I'd expect changes to the EPL implementation of VAR and law changes. Hopefully, they don't listen to Arsene Wenger.
     
  7. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    Nice post, and it mirrors a lot of my thoughts.

    And that is a very sad place IMO.

    I am certain that the vast majority of football adherents do not want this overall result. It is clearly
    a case of the cure being worse than the disease.

    Many of the previous slight modifications and tweaks to the LOTG, and their application, over the years have been beneficial,
    but the more recent ones are definitely not.

    It used to be said that the game, and the application of the Laws, was for the players in amateur football, and for the spectators in professional football. Right now, it seems that is for neither of these, perhaps for the moneyed interests that are paying the bills, but even that is hard to accept when so many observers, including me, are clearly not content with what is going on.

    PH
     
  8. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
  9. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    There was a hand/ball incident in the Liverpool-WHU match today, similar to the Leicester City one
    over the weekend. Ball hits defenders arm after he turned away from the cross in the PA. No PK given.
    I would agree with this one, probably arm position and closeness of shot meant it was the hair-splitting
    compared to the LCFC decision. But we are talking about just a few inches of difference regarding arm position.

    PH
     
  10. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
  11. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    There has always been hairsplitting--wherever lines are drawn, there are boundary cases. Those have always been ITOOTR. Now, with VAR, we pretend they are objective with clear lines. IMHO, when it comes to handling, VAR should be very valuable in determining if in fact the ball touched the hand/arm, but should very rarely intervene on the question of whether that contact was deliberate. But no one asked me.
     
    IASocFan repped this.
  12. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Matchweek 28

    Norwich - Leicester
    Referee: Craig Pawson. Assistants: Richard West, Neil Davies. Fourth official: Jarred Gillett. VAR: Graham Scott. Assistant VAR: Andy Halliday.

    Brighton - Crystal Palace
    Referee: Martin Atkinson. Assistants: Daniel Cook, Sian Massey-Ellis. Fourth official: Tim Robinson. VAR: Kevin Friend. Assistant VAR: Andy Halliday.

    Bournemouth - Chelsea
    Referee: Andre Marriner. Assistants: Scott Ledger, Dan Robathan. Fourth official: Graham Scott. VAR: Paul Tierney. Assistant VAR: Andrew Garratt.

    Newcastle - Burnley
    Referee: Andy Madley. Assistants: Simon Beck, Adrian Holmes. Fourth official: Stephen Martin. VAR: Jarred Gillett. Assistant VAR: Stephen Child.

    West Ham - Southampton
    Referee: Anthony Taylor. Assistants: Gary Beswick, Adam Nunn. Fourth official: Robert Jones. VAR: Stuart Attwell. Assistant VAR: Richard West.

    Watford - Liverpool
    Referee: Michael Oliver. Assistants: Stuart Burt, Simon Bennett. Fourth official: Jonathan Moss. VAR: Mike Dean. Assistant VAR: Darren Cann.

    Everton - Man Utd
    Referee: Chris Kavanagh. Assistants: Lee Betts, Constantine Hatzidakis. Fourth official: Craig Pawson. VAR: Jonathan Moss. Assistant VAR: Eddie Smart.

    Tottenham - Wolves
    Referee: Stuart Attwell. Assistants: Marc Perry, Simon Long. Fourth official: Kevin Friend. VAR: Simon Hooper. Assistant VAR: Mark Scholes.

    Kavanagh with what should be a highly entertaining affair. Of course, more attention will be on the EFL Cup Final, with Mason in the center and Dean as VAR, and El Clasico handled by Mateu Lahoz.
     
  13. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    roby repped this.
  14. jdmahoney

    jdmahoney Member

    Feb 28, 2017
    Plymouth, MN
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Gillett back in action in the EPL as a 4th official too. I wonder how long it will be before he becomes a regular.
     
  15. Ghastly Officiating

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Oct 12, 2017
    Norwich City - Leicester

    https://streamja.com/9XXy

    Ball hits off a defenders arm, into an attackers arm, and then the attacker dribbles a few yards and then buries the shot. This is from just outside the PK on the right side of the pitch. Both players have the ball hit their arm, neither do so deliberately, yet the attacker is the only one punished for the same exact contact of the ball with their arm.

    This one second of soccer shows that attackers and defenders are now treated differently. What an age of soccer...
     
  16. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    i should know the answer, but the replays that are shown during the VAR stoppage, are those all they have to go on?

    Does clear and obvious not make an appearance when it’s unseen even if it cannot be seen by replay?

    i watched every replay and I still have no idea, but what exactly is going on?
     
  17. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    Well, it seems that they have got through the first part of the weekend's matches with no VAR controversy. Hopefully the same tomorrow.:rolleyes:

    PH
     
  18. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    36’ Man U
    Is that a passback?
    Defender plays ball to another defender. Instead of touching it, that defender shields it and keeper picks it up.
     
  19. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Right call to overrule the Everton goal in added time for offside.

    Right call after the whistle for Kavanagh to send Ancelotti for OFFINABUS.
     
  20. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    Did I speak too soon?
    Last minute Everton/Man U. Goal disallowed for offside, but ball last touched by defender? Looked like OG? Everton manager red carded at end of match as a result of protests!

    PH
     
  21. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    I think that call could go either way TBH. Ruled a goal on the field. I think it’s a goal.
     
    rh89, MassachusettsRef and Pierre Head repped this.
  22. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The touch by Maguire was 100% a deflection. Right call for offside.
     
  23. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    United gets that call.
     
  24. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    I don't get it .
     
  25. TxSooner

    TxSooner Member

    Aug 12, 2011
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Interesting finish in the Everton Man U match. A stoppage time goal overturns by VAR for offside with an Everton player sitting on the pitch in an offside position in the goalkeeper’s lone of sight.

    And the Everton manager shown a post match red card.
     

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