Just for the record, I had a lower level recert this morning, and we were taught exactly as it was applied in this game.
Yes but ... everybody seems to be in agreement that this sort of thing is not what is desired. If that is true, what possible reason can there be for enforcing it other than on the precise, poorly-drafted letter of the ill-conceived rule? I'll calm down as soon as I get something to eat.
Speaking from a non-referee perspective but as one who has watched matches since 1966 and seen a number of goals coming off of hand balls that were not called, I think the intent was to remove the subjectivity in terms of intent. Intent is taken out of the equation and with VAR being added it makes things black and white. Maybe the language is still too ambiguous in the minds of some but what is the solution? Do you make the VAR have to make subjective decisions? if so, how would this interface with the CR's decision. It is unfortunate (and maybe predictable) that we saw to problematic examples in the first two weeks of the EPL season.
Right. I didn’t suggest it wouldn’t be taught this way. Just suggesting some in those setting might make the same point that Bubba is, which might spur debate. The “well, actually it says...”
Again, the real problem (if you can philosophically accept that unintended handballs will now be sometimes punished) is the law (as applied) combined with VAR—not the law itself. And now we are stuck, by the way. City just dropped 2 critical points in a title race on this in Week 2. There’s no going back or adjusting this mid season. The die is cast.
For us grassy-rooty-toot-toots without VAR, I guess as a practical matter now we blow as soon as we see the ball hit an attacker's arm in or near the area, unless possession immediately falls to the defense? Does a defense touch reset this?
He will also get a relegation 16 v 17 place team match I reckon. Graham Scott got an interesting match as well at the bridge. First home match for Lampard (no bias here) and Brendan Rodgers on the touchline with Oliver Langford who is a newer name. Finally, the PGMOL getting some much needed fresh blood. I felt for the last two seasons the pgmol at the top division was 2 referees quitting/injury from defcon 1.
To play devil's advocate in the Man City-Spurs situation (I haven't watched the game yet, but the descriptions appear pretty clear about what happened), the Laws say this. "It is an offense if a player . . . gains possession/control of the ball after it has touched their hand/arm and then . . . creates a goal-scoring opportunity." It sure seems like the PGMOL is interpreting the law to say that if Player A has a ball go off his arm, that's "gaining possession". Then when Player B has a goal-scoring opportunity, that qualifies to call handling. Not saying it's right, just saying that's how it appears how the English are calling it.
Graham Scott got stuck in traffic, so Oliver Langford will be replacing him as the referee at Chelsea.
I’ve noticed after two weeks that English ARs are using the delayed offside flag tactic far less than counterparts in other VAR leagues. I’ve seen at least three incidents with traditional “quick” flags and the ball ending up in the back of the net. All were correct. But all were correct by less than a yard (and one much closer to about a foot). Whether or not that’s been deliberately decided or English ARs are still getting used to VAR is hard to discern. It’s much better than some of the ridiculous and completely unnecessary delays we saw at the WWC, but they’ve probably swung the pendulum too far in the other direction. If this keeps up a good goal is going to be denied from a quick flag without the ability for VAR to fix it. And the tabloids will have a field day when it occurs.
I favor them flagging close calls that aren't in doubt. If you are sure if the offside, flag it. Let VAR deal with the doubtful calls.
The entire point of having VAR for offside is that sometimes ARs are wrong even when they are sure. I also don’t think you fully grasp how VAR works with offside. ARs still always make the decision initially. They just wait to flag if it’s close and there’s a potential goal-scoring opportunity. Only by waiting can VAR correct a wrong decision. It doesn’t mean ARs are ceding the decision—they are just waiting so that a mistake can be corrected if necessary. Regardless, I’ve now read elsewhere that PGMOL wants ARs to act as it VAR doesn’t exist and to have referees delay the whistle. That’s both classic English arrogance (we need to do things differently because we know better) and a recipe for disaster. What happens when an AR flags, a CR delays, and a subsequent offside decision—with the AR now out of position—must be made before a shot on goal? Critical thinking and planning for obvious scenarios seems to be in short supply with governing bodies right now.
Something weird about this one. You would have to think a Premier League referee would need to be at the venue 3 hours before KO. (I’m guessing.). Unless the Underground was also out, I’m going with overslept for a late afternoon match.
Probably wasn't going to be 3 hours but instead 1 and a half hours so the decision was made to bump him, leave earlier next time. Or it's something as simple as a stomach bug.
Sure, let's go with that. Like most of us here, I'm not an MLS or EPL level referee. I do like the idea that the AR makes a decision. They have been doing it correct a significant majority of the time as it is. I think this is a general point if agreement. It comes down to understanding what kinds of mistakes are made by officials during game play and using VAR to improve those things. I get the feeling, especially with the handling thing that pulled out two goals out in the last two weeks that the combination of VAR and law change has harmed the game, and hopefully it will be fixed before the next MLS season. As for off side, VAR tries to be more exact than it should. There is a level of uncertainty, regardless of the precision believed to be possibly in the technology used. Recall that in the pre-VAR days, the attack got the benefit of the doubt. VAR took that away, despite the fact that it may not provide the accuracy and precision advertised.
My understanding is Scott got stuck in this: Anyone planning to go on the M40 going towards Wembley from Birmingham/Oxfordshire, there's been a horrendous RTC, there's traffic backed up for miles #M40 #M40gridlocked pic.twitter.com/tVmtTizAEg— Lotte Bowbrick (@lottebow) August 18, 2019 That hashtag gives more details on the crash and traffic.
So EPL referees can leave from home during the day of the game? They don't have to be at the hotel of the city of the game, the night before?