Predictions 2021/2022

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Sexy Beast, Aug 11, 2021.

  1. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    New edition.

    Early predicitions:
    • PSG wins treble
    • Chelsea wins epl (If City buys Kane i will rethink this)
    • Juve wins Serie A again
    • Aguero will score less than 10 goals, all competitions
     
  2. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    I think there are too many uncertainties now for a 3 to 1 odds in the betting market. The squad and eleven looks unbalanced with too few midfielders and forwards who can/will defend. How will Ramos fit in?

    None of the three superstars have been in the form of their lives the past 12 months. Messi has still an argument for being the world's best player, but his return in big matches (incl. Clasicos) has been down.

    Other superclubs as Bayern and Juventus are good enough with good enough coaches to beat them.

    How Barcelona performs domestically also depends on whether they can register Eric Garcia etc. The problem was really not the attack. 'Flop' Griezmann had 20 goals and a dozen assists last season despite various problems. Messi leaves a huge void but the problem is imho not the attack - also without him there were enough chances and shots.

    It will help if Busquets can find his euro 2020 form rather than the one at the start or end of last season. Without proper holding player it will become difficult.
     
  3. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member+

    Jun 1, 2018
    #3 Tropeiro, Aug 11, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2021
    PSG is in the same ballpark of Chelsea, City and Bayern for me... with better attack but thats it, more unbalanced too.

    Barcelona will depend of less injuries and if they can register their players. If they miss Depay and others, Pedri, De Jong, Fati and even Coutinho in the early of the season, this could be a long season for them. If they click then the team can still make 80 or more points in La Liga tho.

    About the EPL:

    City and Chelsea will make 80-90 points
    Liverpool and United around 75 points.
    The rest will make around 65 or less.
     
  4. peterhrt

    peterhrt Member+

    Oct 21, 2015
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    Average points needed to win the Premier League since 20-team format established in 1995/96 (one point more than second placed team): 81
    Average during past 10 seasons: 83

    Average points needed to finish 4th (one point more than fifth placed team): 66
    Average during past 10 seasons: 69

    Average points needed to avoid relegation (one point more than 18th placed team): 36
    Average during past 10 seasons: 35


     
  5. joudre

    joudre Member

    Jan 3, 2016
    Barca will go to 2 division lol
     
  6. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    well i agree it is not certain that PSG will win treble, but there is no fun in saying that they might win it.. i am not 100% convinced they will win, but i think they are really close to that.

    Last season vs City, PSG looked solid, very very good, at times, too good, so if they can keep that level, which looks like they could, they are going to be strong.

    Also i believe Messi-Mbappe duo will be one of the greatest duos ever, they fit each other sooo well, even 34 year old Messi, but apparently Mbappe doesn't want to play with Messi, which is shame.. and if he goes to Real, then i woulc definitely change my pick.

    It is true also that PSG, if Mbappe stays, will have the same problem that Barcelona 2017 had with Neymar Messi and Suarez... that the front three would be defensively almost useless, but i still think they would be too strong offensively not to win. better than MSN.

    Plus, PSG has luxury that no other team has, and that is that they will have comfortable situation in ligue 1 so they will be all in in ucl. Ligue 1 has improved over the years so it's not like they don't have challenges within it. They will be able to remain competitive due to those challenges in the league, but also not to stressed out about it..

    Ramos will gel in perfectly.
     
  7. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Yes, barcelona hasn't had problem with attack, and i think they will play well without Messi. Depay, Griezmann, Fati,... those are all talented players. Barcelona will be fine. Will they have that extra umph to do something in ucl on the big stage, we will see. Maybe if they play really well as a team. I don't know.

    Eric Garcia tho, won't make big difference.

    And it is not lack of quality defenders that was Barcelona's issue defensively, it is that they at times are indesicive about the way they want to play, and that costs them.
     
  8. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member+

    Jun 1, 2018
    Mbappe is right to be out of PSG, his best position is more on the left side of the pitch and he is going to play more central with PSG, also he wants to be the best star of the team (which is the expected for the big players since he is one the world's TOP5 nowadays and would be a star in whatever club in the world apart of PSG quite arguably, Neymar that is a shame going to Barcelona before, at least Messi demarcated his territory as example the Ibra case at Barcelona).
    Also Mbappe wants a more ball-dominant role to develop as a player, which wouldn't possible with Neymar and much less now with Messi too.

    On the other hand PSG can also benefit from this if they can get a striker who can press harder and work harder without the ball than Mbappe. Worse punch thats true, but better in stability and balance in formation.
     
  9. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    what do you mean he wants more ball-dominant role. Neymar almost never plays and when Mbappe is on the ball, he is simply bad. He needs to run and do off the ball movements. Outside that he is not that special player. Mbappe is not a playmaker and will never be one.

    Why would he have to have need to lead his own team? He can learn so much from Messi... if anything, i would want Neymar to leave. Messi Mbappe duo will be deadily. Neymar is too similar to Messi and also worse than him.
     
  10. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Maybe. Last season they had the most errors leading to a goal of all La Liga teams, most errors leading to a shot and most errors leading to a big chance. In an ideal world they had cloned FDJ - one in defense and one in midfield - and/or received Busquets in his euro 2020 form.

    Ter Stegen wasn't in his best form either. He immediately received surgery and injury treatment after the end of the season. Rumors are he had a clash with Messi this year and his 'farewell Messi' social media post speaks about differences of opinion. I can imagine when you're already half-fit such differences with the captain and a living legend don't help for your form.

    I do find Aguero and Depay strange signings and not the first priority, but that as side-note.

    Dembele actually played very well against Hungary at euro 2020.
     
  11. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Jackpot:
     
  12. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    #12 Sexy Beast, Aug 12, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2021
    So would you say that they have less talented defenders on the ball than Villarreal or Real Sociedad or Sevilla or Levante or any other team that enjoys possesion in la liga?

    Of course not, it is not the lack of talent, it is a disfunctional strategy that has too big expectations of all players on the ball that leads to mistakes. Individual players are under too much tactical pressure on the ball so they will of course make frequent mistakes.

    How many mistakes per season has Lenglet made in his Sevilla days and how many last season for Barcelona? Players are not the issue. It's a quasi total football philosophy that is the problem.. (plus transfer politic)

    The idea of total football is to control the ball, but you can control the ball in many ways, not just by having possesion, albeit, having possesion is by far the best way. You can also control the ball the way Altetico does, by forcing opponents to play in channels in which you are comfortable with.... Barcelona is the victim of Pep's success and misinterpretation of total football and this constant emphasis on possesion, possesion, possesion, is killing them, especially because their transfers don't help them. They are constantly trying to replicate what they had under Pep... as long as they do that, they will underperform.
     
    PuckVanHeel repped this.
  13. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member+

    Jun 1, 2018
    Mbappe is not a playmaker in the same way Cristiano wasn't too, still Cristiano managed to create a rivarly with Messi. Fact is Mbappe still had 0.51 expected assists per 90 in the 2019/2020 Ligue 1, that's huge....and also since 18-19 he has no less than 0.45 expected assists per 90 in UCL (Messi 0.41 and Neymar 0.34), these are big numbers for a player who will never be a playmaker according to our friend. The myth Mbappe is just a runner is for casuals and needs to stop. He can be your off-the-ball player and he can be a more ball dominant player too.

    Mbappe needs to leave PSG if wants to realize his full potential as a footballer and have a more ball-dominant role, Messi can't teach Mbappe nothing that Neymar couldn't.
    The thing that Messi is better than Neymar is mostly because his finishing ability, otherwise between pros and cons they have a very similar level (as you can see based on general Fbref stats, sites like Smarterscout or MacroFootball or even if realize their results in Europe in the last seasons), that Neymar and Messi can't play together is just another myth.

    PSG on the hand could benefit from someone more hard-working up front, because both Messi and Mbappe basically walk on the pitch without the ball.
     
  14. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    As I said before, I don't think Koeman is tactically great (at least I am not sure) but what does speak against 'blame the tactics' is FDJ had only two errors leading to a shot, zero leading to a goal, and one penalty caused (an unfortunate handball).

    It were the other midfielders and defenders that racked up the numbers, and - making it easier - didn't switch between three positions all the time.

    I don't think FDJ is *that* much better or *that* magical in this respect. Others should be as good or closer in this, especially without the difficulty of playing three positions. And seeing less of the ball too. Less passes and touches.

    That factoid suggests it isn't exclusively a tactics problems, but also a player problem. Lenglet, Pique and Umtiti are indeed not the same players as before. Maybe they can be again. Just as the novice fullbacks.
     
  15. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    except making assists don't equal being a playmaker.

    Do you know what is the single best predictor of how many assists one will register?

    How close you are to the opponent's goal. This is universal rule. Closer you are, bigger chances of making an assist? Why? Because if you are winger, you are on average passing around the penalty box, and of course then you will have higher chances "assisting" then Kroos whose passes are around the centre of the pitch.

    Cristiano has way more assists than Xavi, yet he will never be a half of the playmaker that Xavi was... Cristiano is in the sweatspot for stat padding that's why he has those numbers. The same for Mbappe, and he should stay there, don't get me wrong, if he becomes more ball-dominant he will ******** everything up. He can't do what Neymar and Messi do.

    Messi is so much more consistent playmaker than Neymar it is not even close. Neymar will give you great material for youtube compilation, but he will never be that effective.

    Messi and Neymar can play together, obviously, but Messi and Mbappe gel better. They have more complimentary skills.
     
  16. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    FDJ is a extremely talented player, and that is sample size of what? He will make mistakes and lose confidence and make more mistakes and get back, etc. That is just a matter of time...

    again. Is it that all the players are not the same like before, and every defender turns bad as they magically sign for Barcelona and Levante has more talented defenders or something else?

    It is much simpler and easier explanation that FDJ is just an exceptional talent (obviously) who will have his bad days as well, and that others just crack under too demanding tactics than that every defender that joins Barcelona magically becomes shit.. and we all know Barcelona doesn't just randomly choose who to buy. They are very selective.

    If Sevilla and Barca had switched whole back 4, nothing would have changed. Barcelona would still have the most errors leading to shot.
     
  17. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member+

    Jun 1, 2018
    Messi and Neymar are very close in terms of ball progression as well, as progressive distance and progressive carries, both with similar number of touches, you need to be dishonest enough to think Neymar is just a Youtube merchant.

    Messi is much more a team edge product than him.



    You can say Messi is more accurate (not only in terms of finishing) and safer, more well-measured in his actions than Neymar, but Messi is also worse off the ball, less mobile, more lazy and defends close to nothing.
     
  18. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord


    This is what I have been saying all the time.

    Transfer fees are only distantly related to (inherent) player quality and as the saying has been here for a long time, since at least the 1980s: "it is what the madman wants to give".
     
  19. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    if only football was that simple where you can read such a basic statistic and know everything.. i think you would enjoy more sports like american football or basketball.

    Do you realize how isolated those numbers are from any context?

    Messi's decision making is lightyears ahead of Neymar's. You don't see that in numbers
     
  20. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Nobody called Neymar a youtube merchant
     
  21. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member+

    Jun 1, 2018
    Do you don't realize you sounds just like another basic Messi fanboy out there?

    Decision making could be quantified and sure Messi's decisions aren't "lightyears" better than the Neymar's one. Neymar output is more or less the same of Messi (in terms of ball progression, end product expected numbers etc) with the same number of touches of the argentinian. So how is Messi much better in decision making? He isn't.

    Not only looking only at data-event, but how the team performs with the player on the pitch, they roughly the same. Now, Neymar off-the-ball is much better than Messi and it is a fact and off-the-ball movements are perhaps more important than the on-the-ball actions.
     
  22. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord




    1426535226554163201 is not a valid tweet id


    :thumbsup: :D
     
  23. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    how could it be quantified? What statistic shows value of a decision?

    What output? Output doesn't matter. How many dribbles they average is irrelevant. Every dribble is not the same. Location of the dribble matters. Consequences of the dribble matter, what happens after that? Was he dribbling into 4 players, or actually did some work? There is so much nuance none of these statistics touch on.

    Players don't play to have a great output, but to increase chances of winning of their team. No statistic you've shared shows anything of substance... at the best, such basic statistic roughly indicates a playing style of a player, that is it. Beyond that, what impact they have is immeasurable
     
  24. ThomasAvie

    ThomasAvie New Member

    Ajax
    Aug 4, 2021
    Those stats are incredible misleading. They are taken from the last 5 years. When Ney played in a superteam and Messi in a struggling barca side. And Neymar played half the number of games messi played. So the p90 stats are barely comparible. Neymar in the next Brazilian in line to have insane talent but no consistency
     
  25. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member+

    Jun 1, 2018
    Consistent is Messi who can't score or assist in the last 7 El Clásico matches (the only team who can play more or less equal to Barcelona in their farmer league) and who can eat 0-4, 0-3, 2-8 results in Europe while walking on the pitch. Messi is the consistent player.
     

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