CF: Balogun, Pepi Wings: Pulisic, Zendejas, Weah, Wright AM: Reyna, Aaronson, Tillman, Wes DM: McKennie, Adams, Berhalter, Tessmann Wingback: Jedi, Arfsten, Freeman, Dest CB/Wide-CB: Trusty, Richards, McKenzie, Ream, Banks GK: Freese, Celentano, Turner
Does anyone else think picking 26 for '30 might be easier right now? (PS: I know it never is.) GK: Freese, Klinsmann, Kochen DF: Dest, Freeman Richards, Banks, Wynder, Cupps, Akinmboni Robinson, Arfsten MF (6&8) Tessmann, Raines, Sullivan, Cardoso, Adams, Berhalter AM (10 and Wingers) Pulisic, Reyna, Tillman, Luna, Albert/Weah/Gozo Strikers Balogun, Pepi, Wright/Agyemang
albert and gozo??? what they have no chance ...not even .1% maybe cavan could be a youth player brought along
We aren’t Spain, either. To me, it’s simple. 2025 Ream is a foundational piece of the team. Who knows what 2026 Ream will be? At his age, he might fall off precipitously, in which case, who knows? This whole argument, IMO, is about the odds that he more or less stays the same vs. falls off a cliff.
Ream was never to the US what Ramos was to Spain. Ream had a single passable year in the Prem, which coincided with the WC. He has significantly fallen off this past MLS season. We have capable defenders. There's no need to pretend otherwise.
Winter 22 (bolded are 2022 World Cup holdovers): Fall 23 update: Fall 24 update: Winter 25 update - officially switching to a 26 man roster by default: ST(3): Balogun(01), Wright(98), Pepi(03) AM/CM(10): Pulisic(98), M. Tillman(02), Reyna(02), Luna(03), B. Aaronson(00), McKennie(98), Adams(99), Tessmann(01), Berhalter(01), C. Roldan(95) WB(4): A. Robinson(97), Dest(00), Arfsten(01), Weah(00) CB/FB(6): Richards(00), Ream(87), M. Robinson(97), McKenzie(99), Freeman(04), Scally(02) GK(3): Freese(98), Turner(95), Schulte(01) And if its 23 cut B. Aaronson(00), C. Roldan(95), and Scally(02) And if its 30 add Agyemang(00), A. Morris(01), Tolkin(02), Trusty(98) Just missed: Zendejas(98), McGlynn(03), Musah(02), Banks(06), Steffen(95) Looking back obviously I was way too slow to have Ream staying in the picture, him and Roldan never made any of my previous rosters or even just missed sections! I can forgive myself for completely missing Berhalter, Arfsten, and Freeman. My other awful decisions were to not have Tillmann in 2022 and being late on Tessmann. Held onto Horvath and Paredes too long, every roster until this one (Thought Horvath would be the experienced nice guy GK3 role and didn't take into account Paredes injury history enough). Happy to see I always had A. Morris in the picture, every single time he's been in the "just missed" section. And this is actually the first time I didn't have Tolkin making the 23/26 but I still have him in the 30. Miles is the other nontraditional guy I put unwavering support behind that looks to have been a good choice. Between Fall 24 and now I have counted 7 changes(Sargent -> Wright, Paredes -> Arfsten, Musah -> Berhalter, Johnny -> Roldan, Tolkin -> Freeman, Trusty -> Ream, and Horvath -> Freese). Between Fall 23 and Fall 24 there were only 4 changes in the 26 (Koleosho -> Luna, Cremaschi -> Tessmann, CCV -> Trusty, Slonina -> Schulte). I'm expecting to see 2-4 more changes between now and the last one I'll make in the summer.
CF: Balogun, Pepi Wings: Pulisic, Zendejas, Weah, Wright AM: Tillman, Luna, Reyna, Aaronson DM: McKennie, Adams, Berhalter, Tessmann Wingback: Jedi, Arfsten, Freeman, Dest CB/Wide-CB: Richards, McKenzie, Ream, Robinson, Banks GK: Freese, Turner, Brady The weakest part of the team are the GKs and the CBs. This is an area where we could way underperform during the World Cup. If we had a first class GK like Howard, Keller or Friedel and a top CBs like Tony Sanneh, Eddie Pope, Carlos Bocanegra or even Oguchi Onyewu, the team could be a major surprise next summer. Unfortunately, that's not what we have.
Well, you picked a teenage centerback that will be uncapped three months from the World Cup. That's the state of the CB pool. We've had late teenage uncapped additions to WC roster, but nowhere near that late. In fact, Banks has only been on the bench once for the USMNT. CCV was out injured and Richards wasn't available.................and STILL Poch didn't call Banks up in November. He called up Sean Zawadski, who's played mostly CB this year, instead. Then when Sean had to withdraw with an injury, he didn't call up another CB. He just went with the four natural CBs. Trusty, Ream, Robinson, and McKenzie. Because in his 3-4-3, Freeman was being played as a RCB against Uruguay. Scally did it against Paraguay. So I'm starting to question whether Poch will take that 5th natural CB if he's going to use guys like Freeman there. The other guy on your roster I'm starting to question is Zendejas, who has only played in 2 of our last 18 games. I don't know. I can easily see Poch leaving out a Zendejas and picking from the strength of our pool.............which is central midfield. McKennie has played RW/RM in three of list last four caps. So take out Zendejas, think of McKennie as a winger, and add a Johnny or somebody of that ilk.
Richards is at least on par with those guys, albeit doesn't have the body of work they did. Sanneh actually mostly played fullback for the US, his main run at CB was in the 2002 WC when we were forced by injuries and cards to go 3 at the back in the knockout rounds. He would've been a great fit for Poch's RCB/FB hybrid role.
Totally fair points. Banks was my one real stretch. If he plays regularly until the WC he has a shot reflecting how weak we are at CB. Instead of Banks he could go with, and I know this is controversial, with Zimmerman or Blackmon. Zimmerman is both a leader and is very strong in the air so I can see him at the end of a game at either end of the field keeping the ball out or taking a shot. Blackmon has had a great season and is a good but not great all around player. But as you said do you take the additional CB or go with Freeman and load up with another utility player.
At this point in time only Richards is on par with the other players identified. If Ream were 10 years younger he would definitely be a locked in starter, unfortunately, father time takes no prisoners.
*** indicates lock for starting 11. ** indicates lock for 23. *indicates lock for 26 (at least for now…). Players are “generally” grouped by position. **+Balo, **+Pepi, **Wright ***Pulisic, **Weah, *Luna, ***McKennie, *Roldan, **Tillman, Berhalter, **Tessman ***Adams, ***Jedi, **Arfsten, **Freeman, ***Dest ***Richards, **Ream, **McKenzie, Robinson ***Freese, **Turner 4 more (in order) to complete the 26: Aaronson, Morris, Reyna, Banks Just outside looking in: Cardoso, Agyemang In my opinion, Aaronson and Morris will make the team: Aaronson’s energy and ability to press could prove very valuable at the end of a game. He has few peers in that area. Morris, imo, comes the closest to a poor man’s like for like with Adams. We have several players that could replace Adams, but none, imo, with the same defense first profile that Adams has. Reyna and Cardoso are in the same category imo. Both have something to prove, but either or both of them could easily leapfrog up the list. It is theirs for the taking imo. For now, I am penciling Reyna into the 26. Agyemang? Maybe. Banks is there mainly due to a combination of hope and youth. I haven’t seen him AT ALL! I have heard reports and know that he is starting in B1 (albeit for a lower half club). So, based on hope from reports and the fact that he is starting, combined with the knowledge that it is POSSIBLE for a young player (he is young…obviously) to improve greatly over a very short period of time. (see Freeman as exhibit A for a recent example), I will put Banks in my 26. That's an interesting observation that I didn't give much thought before now. Perhaps you are right. It makes me wonder if Poch is thinking more of a hybrid position...not cb, not wb but a specific position/role that allows switching in game between a back four and a back three. Scally, or Freeman wouldn't be replacing the right center back position but playing the hybrid behind Dest (or even Weah if for some reason Dest wasn't available or was being rested). Freeman (or Scally) can both play rcb OR rb while Dest can play rw, rwb or rb (as can Weah). If that is the case, it doesn't change my list. I still have Scally behind Freeman and given Weah's ability to play rwb or rb, I think Poch would leave the "hybrid" position with only Freeman playing that role. Of course there are a few scenarios that would make some room for Scally....
I think the possibilities are four types of backlines: A more traditional 4 ATB with attacking fullbacks on both sides The assymetrical 4231 we saw against Paraguay and Uruguay where the more defensive FB stays at home some, but mostly attacks. The assymetrical 4231 where one FB is stay at home but we defend in a Back 4 in set defense. A true 3 ATB where we defend in a set defense with a back 3/back 5 and we play with true wingbacks Dest can do #1, and maybe swing #2. If the stay at home side is on the other side, I'd put Arfsten in this bucket. But both are more likely to either play winger or simply #1 (which is really what Arfsten plays on the left when we are slanted right). Jedi and Freeman can do #1, 2 and 3. Scally and Tolkin can do #1, 2, and 3 technically, but you'd want to keep them more to #2 for Tolkin and #2 and #3 for Scally, I'd think. Scally may be about to swing #4. A CB like Miles can do #3 and #4. It seems to me that if you want to do #4 at any time, you have to seriously consider bringing five CBs. For Berhalter, this was a pretty standard end of game tactic. The big question, I think, comes down to -- do you want to carry Scally as a reserve and do you trust him to play centerback in a pinch? Because if you only carry 4 true centerbacks, injuries or yellow cards can start to play a role. Personally, I suspect that Dest may be more of a regular RW than we think, which puts Scally on my roster. And I still may carry a fifth CB.
FWD: Balogun, Pepi, Wright MF: Pulisic, Tillman, Reyna, Weah, Luna, Zendejas, McGlynn CM: Adams, Tessmann, McKennie, Cardoso, Berhalter DF: Richards, Ream, McKenzie, Freeman, Dest, Robinson, Arfsten, Scally GK: Freese, Turner, Schulte
December Update(3421/4231) CF: Balogun, Pepi CAM: Pulisic, Luna, Zendejas, McKennie CM/DM: Tillman, Adams, Berhalter, Johnny Wingback: Jedi, Arfsten, Wean, Dest CB Richards, McKenzie, Trusty, Banks, RCB/RB: Freeman, Scally GK: Turner, Kochen, Freese
QUOTE="gogorath, post: 43392852, member: 335509"]I think the possibilities are four types of backlines: A more traditional 4 ATB with attacking fullbacks on both sides The assymetrical 4231 we saw against Paraguay and Uruguay where the more defensive FB stays at home some, but mostly attacks. The assymetrical 4231 where one FB is stay at home but we defend in a Back 4 in set defense. A true 3 ATB where we defend in a set defense with a back 3/back 5 and we play with true wingbacks Dest can do #1, and maybe swing #2. If the stay at home side is on the other side, I'd put Arfsten in this bucket. But both are more likely to either play winger or simply #1 (which is really what Arfsten plays on the left when we are slanted right). Jedi and Freeman can do #1, 2 and 3. Scally and Tolkin can do #1, 2, and 3 technically, but you'd want to keep them more to #2 for Tolkin and #2 and #3 for Scally, I'd think. Scally may be about to swing #4. A CB like Miles can do #3 and #4. It seems to me that if you want to do #4 at any time, you have to seriously consider bringing five CBs. For Berhalter, this was a pretty standard end of game tactic. The big question, I think, comes down to -- do you want to carry Scally as a reserve and do you trust him to play center back in a pinch? Because if you only carry 4 true center backs, injuries or yellow cards can start to play a role. Personally, I suspect that Dest may be more of a regular RW than we think, which puts Scally on my roster. And I still may carry a fifth CB.[/QUOTE] I think we largely agree, in that it is primarily about flexibility. I'm not sure, but I may see scenario #4 a bit differently than you, or perhaps it would be scenario #5. I do agree that, especially if 3 at the back is expected to be used a significant amount of time, 5 cb's that can play that role is probably necessary. What I am thinking about isn't, imo, an asymmetrical formation or either of the "true/traditional" formations. It would be a "jack of all trades" formation. With the right combinations of players on the field, I think we could switch between any of the formations you mention. The key is the versatility of players like Dest, Weah, Freeman and extreme athleticism of Jedi. a back line of Jedi, 2 "true" cb's and Freeman gives you the traditional back 4. (4-5-1, 4-3-3 or 4-4-2 etc) Balo/Pepi Puli, McKennie, Adams,Tillman, Dest (obviously, they won't play in a straight line across field) Jedi, Ream, Richards, Freeman GK The above formation could easily play asymmetrically or traditionally as you explain above. Morphs to: Puli up top with CF or as withdrawn striker Jedi, McKennie, Adams, Tillman, Dest Ream, Richards, Freeman which can play as your 3 at the back. (call it what you want: 3132, 31311, 352, 3511 etc) Of course everything comes with a compromise... The most glaring compromises I see are what you lose by playing Scally or Freeman at rcb, compared to our alternative "true" rcb and what you lose by sitting a guy like Weah if Dest plays in his place.
Depth is great. And Poch seems intent on actually using it. Breaking it down further: December Update(3421/4231) CF: Balogun, Pepi CAM/LAM: Pulisic, Luna, CAM: Zendejas, McKennie CM/DM: Tillman, Adams, Berhalter, Johnny Wingback/RAM: , Wean, Dest Wingback/LB: Jedi, Arfsten CB Richards, McKenzie, Trusty, Banks, RCB/RB: Freeman, Scally GK: Turner, Kochen, Freese
Ah, so on a lineup level rather than a roster. I think we can all agree there isn't a natural/nominal CB on the team that we'd be okay with attacking as anything other than an intentional surprise, right? So this comes down fundamentally to two questions: How often do you think you would want to shift to a "true" 3 ATB set up -- that is, where the player playing FB-as-CB actually has stronger CB responsibilities? For example, playing as a CB against a striker duo regularly, or playing as a CB in a rest defense back 3 / back 5? How often would that occur earlier in the game when you couldn't sub? What nominal fullback are you okay with doing that? Freeman? Scally? Jedi? Who else, if any? Playing as the third man in a backline in the build up, or even staying home to defend transition as the third defender is are pretty standard things for a FB. And while you can find yourself in some situations where you are playing more of a CB role, it's less common and more of an open field / situation defending. But playing as a 3 CB in a rest defense is different. Responsiblities are different on who you pick up. You are far more likely to be bumping and playing aerially versus transition D (though longer passes do play a role there and a lack of size can be an issue). I'm not saying these guys can't do it, but I think it's an open question who can. My point on the roster was that if we are playing a true 3 ATB, I would rather bring in someone like Miles or Walker -- real aerial ability, real size, to crowd up the middle. Plus a little more used to play in interior spaces. ---------- If we remove situation #4 from the analysis, then it's pretty clear we have a number of guys who can play a flexible role. And we can, with some work, do what well drilled teams do -- the players can decide on the fly who is part of this attack and who stays back. Sometimes it's the RB, sometimes it's the LB, sometimes both and a CM needs to stay back and so on. But it takes some soccer IQ and reading the defense and teammates. If we remove that #4 and go that way ... the big question then becomes -- is there enough defensive value in having Freeman play RB to put say, Weah on the bench and have Dest play RW. That may be game to game. Dest is actually a good one on one defender against speedy guys in space, but he can obviously be outmuscled, is not good in the air, and has some lapses. The killer on the discussion is that Wide Right Attacker (which has mostly been RW) might be the best position for Dest, Weah AND McKennie. ---------- On the other hand, if think we will need to play a real 3 ATB or change to one in a game, perhaps if we are a bit outmatched and need the defensive solidity, then you probably carry a fifth CB and if you don't start that way, certainly pushes you to Freeman or Scally and one of Dest and Weah sits. Everything in Poch's past screams a preference for an aggressive gameplan with attacking fullbacks and 4 ATB ... but I just wonder with our weaker defensive line, questionable keeping and the World Cup ... if we don't see a 3 5 ATB more often. Berhalter almost never played it in the cycle and then went to it with 30 minutes left in both games we led.
While it could obviously be an option in a situation where a sub is not desired or possible due to situational time factors such as you mention (early in game, or out of subs etc), I see it also as a way to "hedge your bet" a little. I see it as more likely beginning with 4 in the back and possibly changing to 3 in the back for a more defensive profile. An attacking back 4 formation could change into a back three where the outside back moves in to play as one of the cb's. Yes, as you say, one of Dest or Weah would likely sit and that is part of the compromise that I referred to. There is also a compromise at cb, as you mentioned, by using a cb that "can play cb" as opposed to one that IS a cb. The player that I feel is most suited for this is Freeman. I wouldn't use Jedi for this role because the loss of his attacking down the left side would be too much to give up. In addition, I believe that Dest and Weah would be better as a rwb than a lwb. I believe that Freeman and Scally are fairly close defensively but Freeman, imo, is quite a bit better going forward. As a result, he would be much better as the attacking rb in the back four.
@gogorath a few more thoughts: One of the negatives that has been noted is having to sit one of Dest or Weah. I would also suggest that if Freeman continues to improve, even if at a far slower pace than we have seen over the past few months, sitting Freeman could be seen as an equal or almost equal negative. I think many would agree that Arfsten and Freeman have impressed with their play. The significant difference imo, is that Arfsten has shown himself to be an able backup to Jedi, but not a player that you try to find ways to squeeze into the lineup. Freeman, on the other hand, is beginning to show himself to be a player that has value far beyond his ability to be an able backup for Dest. I think it is clear that in most cases, there will only be 2 spots in the starting lineup for Weah, Dest and Freeman and I expect the decision on who to leave on the bench could be very difficult for Poch. (Assuming both Pulisic and or Jedi are healthy) I believe that the 3 man midfield that I suggested (McKennie, Adams, Tillman) is extremely important for any "defensive compromises" that we will make...personnel, or formational.
True, but there are always a few surprises and I expect there will be some this time around as well. Whether they are on who makes the roster or who makes an impact we will have to wait and see.
The only players that I question are Musah, Banks, Johnny, and Trusty. Depends on who makes it; an MLS player will be dropped.