Pre-War Personalities and Their Best Players

Thanks PDG for sharing these rankings!!!

Just as most cases, they still listed players in "numbering order", so, they listed the midfield line with 3 roles: Mediani destri + Centromediani + Mediani sinistri
But every team by then (1950s) were playing WM or "sistema tactic" in italian words, that's it, a back-3 in defense and two halves.
Centromediani = WM centrehalf = Stopper = Central defender.

It's very interesting they called 3 additional lists:
- Piu ruoli di defesa (versatile defender)
- Piu ruoli quadrilatero (versatile "at square"), meaning the magical square, I think.
- Piu ruoli attaco (versatile forward)

 

No problems mate, it's good when we can discover and post these kinds of things (like you have done quite a bit for Spanish and South American football for example yourself!).

Yes, I guess you're right: after your post I began to consider if it could instead mean versatile in full-back and wing-half roles, but Ciccarelli for example seems to be described more as playing a mix of attacking/AM and midfield (wing-half) roles indeed

 

Btw, unfortunately it seems the 1949/50 version is only viewable behind a paywall/membership on dlib.coninet.it - the necessary page is probably on the archive though (I guess 31st May 1950)....

Assuming there would be a version for 1949/50 and they didn't begin with these final summaries/rankings in 1950/51.

 

And France (I see after looking at another of my new alerts today!)
https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/6-star-ratings-in-france-football-mag.2117312/page-5#post-43555878
Nice work with that also mate - I guess ir's ok for me to link it here for anyone interested even though it;s quite far from pre-war period of course.....

 

It's possible.
In another seasons, there's only 1 additional role called "Ruoli Vari" listed with versatile players alternating 3 roles or even more.

 

Yes, true (or possibly two distinct roles like right winger and centre forward I guess too).

La-Maquina classified Da Costa as CF/LW here
https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/world-cup-1958-retconned.2133754/page-2#post-42726082
His Wikipedia mentions central midfielder as well as striker
Dino da Costa - Wikipedia

Skoglund for example has several seasons listed in the 'attacking mixed role' category I see (but also some among inside lefts and left wingers).

 

Yeah, that is just outstanding. This right here is one of the main puzzles regarding comparisons between old British football and what came after. Moreover, it also completes the thoughts of others, and it followed the line; the line which reflects that British football from 1880s and 1890s reached peak football. Everything points to this.

Pozzo never really saw what British football was like in 1880s and 1890s. However, if this puzzle, which points to these two decades is correct, it is above 1860s, 1870s and what came after before WWII, because it was common sense that British football was above before the era of these players mentioned by Pozzo. Their level? Well, who knows?

 

It actually matches 100% because I have read Pozzo columns about some of them, especially Charlie Roberts. The fact that he doesn't put Meazza as first choice, even as inside forward — which was not even close to the dispute regarding centre-forward — is the cherry on the cake.

 

I never really wrote about this, but, in my opinion, European football reached it's peak before 19th Century, which is — I must add — indescribable.

 

Before the 20th century*.

 

It's a bit strange to read about Dino Da Costa listed as a central midfielder.
Playing for Botafogo, he mainly played as a center forward and sometimes as an attacking midfielder.
Luís Vinício (Napoli), sold along with Dino Da Costa to Italian teams, played as a left winger in an attack sometimes composed of Garrincha - Dino - Vinicio.

 

I guess the Italian Wiki page may describe it better - "centre forward, and if necessary also inside" (i.e inside forward/AM/second striker)
Dino da Costa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
As schwuppe had showed on that other thread Corriere dello Sport had him listed as top interni sinistre (inside left/number 10) for 56/57 - that season they listed by total points gained from ratings (not averages, and not just an overall ranking by their journalists like seemingly in prior years). That season Roma used Nordahl as CF
dbscalcio.it/team_search.php?team_name=Roma&season_year=1956%2F57
Then like we were discussing they had him among the top contenders in 'mixed roles' category for 57/58, but surely he played quite a lot as CF that season - vyncy does a very good job with DBS Calcio and is Italian, but somewhat younger (in comparison to those covering mid 50s Calcio) and I know getting the formations spot on is secondary in his priority list behind getting the correct ratings added to his site for each player (though when I am helping with English league ratings of 80s into early 90s I automatically try for the most suitable/correct system and player role allocations for each team! - as it seems more satisfactory).
dbscalcio.it/team_search.php?season_year=1957%2F58&team_name=Roma
La-Maquina was using him as CF here (and saying "Dino da Costa's power, technical touch and movement will be hard to stop, happy to be both scorer or creator.")
https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/world-cup-1958-retconned.2133754/page-2#post-42728012

 

Best players in Brazilian football:

38- Leônidas
39- Romeu
40- Tim
41- Brandão
42- Dino
43- Domingos
44- Leônidas
45- Sastre
46- Ademir
47- Danilo
48- Bauer
49- Jair
50- Zizinho
51- Baltazar
52- D. Santos

Jornal MUNDO ESPORTIVO (1953)

@PDG1978 Don't you think we committed several crimes at the Big Soccer Ballon d'Or?

Leonidas wasn't even the best player in Brazilian football in 1940. Neither was Zizinho in 1943 and 1944. Sastre could have a claim in 1945 instead of Rinaldo Martino. Jair was clearly the best player of 1949, both at club level and internationally at the Copa América. I would keep Ademir as the best of 1950 for his extraordinary World Cup performance.

 

I'm guessing it's an article from 1953.

That is a retrospective award?

 

Yep

 

Jornal dos Sports:

1947: Ademir (7.79)
1948: Zizinho (8.41)
1949: Ademir (8.25)
1950: Zizinho (8.29)
1951: Zizinho (8.60)
1952: Zizinho (8.47)
1953: Didi (7.92)
1954: X
1955: X
1956: Pinga (7.76)
1957: Dida (7.72)
1958: Garrincha (8.04)

In real time

 

That's Didi for 1957 mate, or a different player called Dida? I remember somebody found that Nilton Santos had been declared player of 1957 Carioca (maybe you?) [I forget with which source though and whether average ratings were used], but these you show are for all competitions in calendar year (including Internationals?) I suppose?

Regarding pre-1950 votes on our Ballon d'Or thread, I didn't vote on those early years myself, but I think generally the guys that did made very good considered efforts based on what they knew. Like msioux says I suppose those are retrospective calls you found then, but also with some gravity because they were for years not very far in the past and by people who were following Brazilian football in that period I suppose anyway....

 

Dida is the Flamengo player. I think he also played in the 1958 World Cup. The ratings are only for forwards. Nilton Santos got the highest rating in 1957, earning 13 POTTs if I'm not mistaken; that was quite a record.

I spoke personally with someone who knows a lot about Brazilian football, and he told me that Zizinho in 1943 and 1944 was not in his prime.

 

Everything I have read indicates Zizinho was one of a number of strong young players in the pecking order for Brazil in 43, 44, and 45. He was not seen as above Heleno, Jair, or Ademir.

He achieved the position as "leader" of his generation in the 1946 Roca Cup and the following 1946 South American Championship. Heleno and Ademir had been superior at the 45 SAC and were equally talented.

 

You are absolutely correct. Moreover, other players, consequently, were regarded as better than him at the 1949 South American Championship — Jair — and at the 1950 World Championship — Ademir. There were some journalists who had him as their first choice, but it seems to be something close to what was Puskás and Kocsis in 1954, for instance. Almost every single information says that, in general, Ademir was the player of the tournament.

Zizinho, however, was one of the best players of most of the tournaments that he played; always there at the top. However, what makes him above these other players is the longevity plus the level he achieved while playing for Brazil, and even in club level. His longevity was impressive.