Pre-War Personalities and Their Best Players

Both Rydell and Kock did play in this Sweden-Hungary game in which Gyorgy Orth played I see:
Sweden - Hungary, Jul 12, 1925 - International Friendlies - Match sheet | Transfermarkt

It seems like Orth played as forward, but if my interpretation is correct didn't have a lot of involvement (I am guessing in this case the translation to 'imperceptible' means this, not that his plays couldn't be perceived by Sweden, given the general tone of the comment anyway):
Sweden - Hungary 6 : 2, 1925.07.12. (photos, data) • hivatalos, barátságos válogatott mérkőzés • Magyarfutball.hu
"We suffered a heavy defeat against Sweden this time. We only lost to them once in a larger proportion...

An extremely tired Hungarian team took to the field. Both the forward line and the defense played enervated. It was clear from the first minutes that there was going to be trouble. Johansson gave the home team a quick lead and was not satisfied with that. Our defense simply proved powerless against him. He was in front of our goal again and again and then he also shot. By the end of the half, he had already found our net three times.
The second half continued as the first one ended. Johansson came and scored another goal. A master quartet. (We would have given it up.) There were 2-2 goals on both sides and we were happy that it was over...

The weakness of the forward line and the almost imperceptible play of Orth in it exacerbated the weakness of the defence. However, the Swedish defense did not excel either, as it could be disturbed even by the rarely run, anemic Hungarian actions. Only Jeny was to be praised, again."

Anyway, Sindelar being chosen instead (and Di Stefano, albeit in theory he could be viable in Liedholm's position too for example I guess - it does seem feasible to think that if prime Orth had been in Serie A around 1950 then he may also have played a Liedholm-type role as inside left I guess too, given that outright striker centre forwards would be in vogue - in Kock's XI the position is left half of course, but potentially a progressive role being in mind at least I guess) isn't a slight, even if there are those that chose Orth ahead as we have discovered too.

Kock, being assistant for Sweden already in the 1948 Olympics, knew Liedholm from those days onwards I suppose, maybe seeing him also for AC Milan at on some occasions, but I wouldn't know how many. I guess he selected Bauer mainly on the basis of the 1950 World Cup but I could be wrong. Kock, selecting in 1968, and Meazza, selecting in 1966, had quite a similar forward line, I see (with Matthews, Eusebio and Pele as well as Zamora as goalkeeper the same), with the 7 differences overall being Kock having Nasazzi (not Domingos Da Guia), McNeill (not Sarosi who may be intended as older-fashioned CH in Meazza's XI anyway), Gemmell (not Facchetti), Bauer (not Kupfer), Liedholm (not Lazar), Di Stefano (not Braine) and Bobby Charlton (not Orsi). Kock, despite being a decade older, has a slightly more modernist XI I suppose and also a more modernist XI than the Bergens Tidende 1953 one (picked at a different moment though, and with both aligning with the trend towards British player inclusions by Scandinavians that seems evident in those relatively early times - Kock having Zamora and Nasazzi and the Bergens Tidende XI containing Planicka and Sesta does show some real differences, even if potentially based on marginal calls, and possibly with Zamora and Nasazzi more prominent before the 'sweet spot' for inclusion by those 1953 journalists also I guess to be fair....).

Nice work finding all that anyway!

 

I didn't find a similar page for the 1921 Hungary-Sweden game but it is specifically referenced in this post (full of praise in general) on Orth's page, by the same guy:
"– Obviously, our younger readers have also heard or read several times: "The most outstanding Hungarian footballer of all time is György Orth." In this sport, it is a complicated task to compare the skills of the players. Still, we can definitely say that even if there was a player like Orth who approached or perhaps even reached his exceptional skills, no Hungarian footballer has surpassed him. He was already well over 180 centimeters tall, and his proportional stature stood out from his peers. His perfect technical training – both head and foot – was combined with a high level of playing intelligence, "general" control skills, a tactical sense before the stall, and an arsenal that made him one of the most outstanding personalities in European football. Its versatility is also almost unparalleled. From goalkeeper to left winger, he played in perhaps every position – at national team level. (His appearances in the top eleven are as follows: he played 19 games, 5 centre-backs, 3 right wingers, 2 right backs, 1 left back.) Instead of the injured Zsák, he also "jumped" into the goal several times – with success. It is interesting that he preferred to play at the left back. However, his skills shone in all their glory in a controlling role, i.e. in the positions of central forward and center back.

He proved to be a brilliant tactician. In the most unexpected moments, in a fraction of a second, he was able to create a favorable situation for himself or his peers. He dribbled irresistibly, shot and headed with great power and accuracy. His apparently sluggish movement turned into a stormy fit when he got into it. He could see the positioning of his companions while running, he sensed them well. He always chose the most favorable solution to continue or end the attack.

– Orth joined the Vasas team as a child, but at the age of 15 he became a player of MTK. He made his debut in the national team eleven as a 16-year-old youngster. However, fate did not remain gracious to him for long. In 1925, in Vienna, he suffered a serious knee injury from which he could not fully recover. He played with great willpower for a few more years. He was also included in the national team. However, it became more and more obvious that the leg, which was capable of miraculous movements before the injury, no longer obeyed the ideas and concepts that were still soaring.

In fact, he retired from the actual game at the end of 1929. He tried to get a job as a coach at home, but he didn't get a job that suited his skills. Therefore, in the spring of 1930, he left for South America. With minor interruptions, he worked there for three decades – with great success. He was preparing to visit home when in January 1962 a fatal heart attack – on Portuguese soil – called him away from the earthly arena for good. His most memorable performance in the Hungarian national team was at the age of 20, on 6 November 1921, in a match against Sweden (4:2). He crowned his dazzling game with three rarely seen goals. However, for those who have seen him play, many of his other matches are obviously memorable. Four or five decades ago, thousands of people went to a match on Sundays just to enjoy his game..."
† Orth György (Budapest 1901.04.30 - Porto 1962.01.11) • People • Magyarfutball.hu - Hungarian football database

It seems to be an exert from a newspaper of the time, but without knowing whether that time 1960s or later (I speculated 1930s, 1950s etc too before I noticed the bit about 1962 that my eye had skipped over at first).

Kock did also play in the 1921 game, but not Rydell btw:
Hungary vs Sweden, 6 November 1921

 

Some other posts by the same guy and others, on other famous Hungarian players, on that site:

† Puskás Ferenc (Budapest 1927.04.01 - Budapest 2006.11.17) • People • Magyarfutball.hu - Hungarian football database
"Player of the Year (1950): Ferenc
Puskás "Öcsi"
Puskás has been one of the very best in Hungarian football for years. Often we did not lift him to the first place because of just one derailment, lack of discipline and suspension. This year he excelled again. He played inimitable football. His unprecedented diligence, enthusiasm for the ball, tirelessness, speed and ability to overview made him a grandmaster of the field. He directed and executed, encouraged and commanded like a general rushing forward to the front line, urging his comrades with words (and what sharp words!) and example. The game was in his blood; He handled the ball as if it were part of his left foot.

As he got angry, quarreled, if the game didn't go well, or if one of his companions made annoying mistakes, he was happy for all his and his companions' successful moves. In the autumn of 1950, he played in great form, yet his performance in the match in Salgótarján in December (6:0!) was almost "unique". He kneaded the mud with great pleasure, in which everyone else, even the so technical Kocsis, Szojka, and Csuberda were stuck. With his wonderful ball technique, he seemed to know no difference between rock-hard ground or a sea of mud. He was the only one who was in control of the ball even on this "bottomless" ground.

Then Honvéd lost in the first half against Előre and then in the year-end match, but Puskás was not scared. He was sure of his business, cheerful, smiling, laughing, encouraging and reassuring his companions. He laughed, laughed, and finally laughed when Kocsis headed three goals in a row. At half-time (they were 3:3), he treated the whole company with jokes and jokes, and even knocked on the door of the textiles, because he wanted to tell Hidegkuti the last joke he had heard at all costs, so he continued the second half. He even patted Master Kallós, the popular referee, on the shoulder laughing when he first conceded his fourth goal and then withdrew it (Puskás also scored three in this game, just like Kocsis. In fact, he also headed one of the three - even though it was not one of his favorite solutions!).

During his long, turbulent playing career, full of huge successes and highly objectionable blunders, from 1943 to 1966 (including his Spanish goal record years), this autumn was - in our opinion - the period of his peak performance."

"He was a member and captain of the Hungarian team that won gold at the 1952 Olympic Games and silver medal at the 1954 World Championships.

– The stocky "öcsi", the captain of the "golden team", is one of the greatest players of Hungarian football. His great talent was already evident in his childhood. At a very young age, in 1943, he got a place in the NB L team of Kispest. After the liberation, his exceptional abilities matured with almost rocket-like speed. Although his shape is not ideal, he only kicked really well with his left foot and his head play did not exceed a good average, he still became a world-class footballer with outstanding skills. For years, he was mentioned as one of the best strikers in the world. His game was characterized by extraordinary explosiveness, perfect ball handling with his left foot, witty concepts unparalleled in ideas and unexpected moves, pinpoint passes even to 30-40 meters, great agility, perfect and quick recognition of situations and exceptional shooting skills. The "compact" young man masterfully controlled the game of his team as a military leader. He was always in place at the endings.

One of the most competent people, György Orth, said the following about Puskás: "He could be a university professor at the chair of football science."

He was one of the best in the field in most of the national team matches. Of his many memorable games, we will mention one in particular. The hero of the 6:0 Hungarian victory in the Olympic semi-final on 28 July 1952 against the previous Olympic champion Swedish national team was the dazzling "öcsi". He often shone with his great goal ability. In 1950, he scored four goals against the Albanians (12:0). In four more matches, he scored three goals each (1946. Luxembourg 7:2, 1948. Romania 5:1, 1949. Austria 6:1 and 1950. Austria 4:3). He was among the goalscorers in more than 50 international matches. A unique achievement in the history of Hungarian football!

In 1956 he left for abroad. In Spain, he played for the world-famous Reál Madrid team for a decade with great success. He also played several times for the Spanish national team. On 23 October 1963, he was also included in the World Cup against England. He is among the greatest striker personalities not only in Hungary, but also internationally."

† Bozsik József (Kispest 1925.11.28 - Budapest 1978.05.31) • People • Magyarfutball.hu - Hungarian football database
"Player of the Year (1952): József

Bozsik József Bozsik reached a great year of his wonderful career at the age of 26-27. It is impossible to say what he showed himself to be the greatest, he mastered all the ins and outs of football. He is unsurpassed in technique: he is completely in control of the ball with both feet. He is the most brilliant in his tactics, a real leader and spiritual leader of the team. His passes, as well as his tackles, his movement that filled the entire pitch did not seem fast, yet miraculously he was always and everywhere on time, and his passes were timed amazingly accurately. His long passes proved to be very manageable, and Puskás scored or worked out a mass of goals. If he had to (in fact, let's face it, many times, if not necessarily...), he broke forward and his bombs rivaled even Szusza's bombs in their strength and positioning.

Its movement is harmonious, simple, natural, and even a little bit like it was comfortable and shuffling. The jumping of Palotás, the dancing of Szilágyi-Sziszi, and even the rushing of Puskás were far from him, yet he was able to get the ball out of the greatest confusion, hustle and bustle with unprecedented speed and wit. Maybe more glamorously, yes, but no one played football more beautifully and smartly (while they didn't despise comfort either)! The most brilliant performance of Bozsik's career is linked to Helsinki. His personal charm was even more important than his play at the Olympic final, when he took over the command instead of Puskás, who was confused by his mistake in the 11th and completely lost his confidence."
"Cucu", the only Hungarian national team footballer to be capped a hundred times, is one of the most outstanding personalities of this sport, both domestically and internationally. During his almost two-decade career in the top flight, he proved to be the most outstanding Hungarian cover player of all time. In its heyday, it was considered the best offensive cover in the world. Perfect technical training, inexhaustible ingenuity and tactical maturity, impressive lightness and control, in short, real "football genius" characterized his game. He was not fast, but with his brilliant sense of positioning, agility and momentum, this deficiency was not noticeable either in defense or offense. A decade and a half ago, the Bozsik-Hidegkúti-Puskás trio – to use a timely technical term – formed a midfield team that has perhaps not been found in the whole world since. During his career, he received a lot of recognition. One of the strengths of the "golden team" was elected a member of parliament in the early fifties. Among his many memorable performances, the most unforgettable is "the match of the century, his almost unsurpassed game on 25 November 1953 in London 6:3. After the unexpected death of Mihály Kispéter, in 1966 and 1967, he worked as a coach at the scene of his former successes, the Bp. Honvéd team."

† Hidegkuti Nándor (Budapest 1922.03.03 - Budapest 2002.02.14) • People • Magyarfutball.hu - Hungarian football database
"He was a member of the Hungarian team that won gold at the 1952 Olympic tournament and silver medal at the 1954 World Championships, as well as the Hungarian team that participated in the 1958 World Championships.

– The "golden team" is a centre forward with exceptional skills, one of the most outstanding players in Hungarian football. His versatility is characterized by the fact that he played with the national team in all positions of the attacking line. His real field of operation was the role of the withdrawn centre-forward, in today's language: the midfielder player. In his heyday, he was mentioned as one of the best strikers in the world. He was perfectly trained technically and tactically, extremely imaginative, hard-working, fast and very good in his head game. One of the interesting features of his successful career is that he "arrived" after the age of thirty. It was then that it turned out that he was capable of the greatest and most useful performance in field play. Along with Bozsik and Puskás, he became one of the conductors of the national team. However, this task did not reduce the effectiveness of his game. In this role, he scored three goals in the 6:3 match against England on 25 November 1953, which was the most outstanding game of his life. In addition to the "match of the century", he scored three goals each on two more occasions (1947. Bulgaria 9:0 and 1951. Finland 8:0). After retiring from the actual game, the popular "old man" achieved significant success as a coach in Italy and at home. In the autumn of 1963, the team of Győri Vasas ETO won the championship under his professional guidance. In 1967, he returned to MTK as a coach, where he achieved the greatest successes of his sports career. In the autumn of 1968, however, he parted ways with the Blue and Whites.
"Az év játékosa (1953): Hidegkuti Nándor

The player of the year - it was Nándi! Even if based on the games shown in the league matches, there could be a debate about whether Puskás should not be given this title more - the 6:3 in London decides the debate in favor of Nándi! Of course, this does not mean that he did not play outstandingly in the league matches (all twenty-six). It's just wonderful that the player who appeared at the bottom of the hillsides of Óbuda almost as a child, who was "discovered" hundreds and hundreds of times, who was already talked about as an Electrician player, and then as a player of the Hermina field, is called Konrád II - in an accelerated edition! - This great player has actually only become a recognized and indispensable great now, after the 1952 Helsinki Olympics.

Of course, he had a hard time, because he liked the right wing position too much and didn't like to play anything else (in the past!). And in the right wing, first Szusza and then Kocsis kept their place in the national team undisplaced, not only because of their exceptional talent, but also because both brought with them their perfectly intertwined, familiar partners, Egresi and Budai II. So Nándi played for the B national team at first, and the foreign professional magazines couldn't stop staring at him. The famous statement of the Viennese newspaper, which was published after a match of the B national team that brought a Hungarian victory, was passed by word of mouth: "What a richness of Hungarian football that a Hidegkuti can only get into the B team!"

And now, over the age of 30, he has broken into the world's top flight - as a centre-forward. Of course, now the centre-forwards no longer had to play like tanks. They didn't demand that he be a new Deák either, that he should remain Hidegkuti! His dizzying technique, his tremendous overview, his tirelessness, his game that filled a huge area, his great pass, his self-initiative who was always awake even though he was selfless, his shooting and heading, his dribbles with which he was able to play himself clean like Sindelar, his speed, especially fast dribbling, all contributed to him getting the title, rank and glory of the player of the year in this great year!
(Right Wing here means inside right not outside right I can understand - PDG)

 

And some more (focusing on relatively older ones again)....

† Sárosi György (Budapest 1912.09.16 - Genova 1993.06.20) • People • Magyarfutball.hu - Hungarian football database
"Gyurka", which was popular three decades ago, is one of the most outstanding personalities of our football sport. He was still in his youth when György Orth said of him: "I have my successor!" Sárosi has indeed become a player with Orth-like talents and skills. In addition to his excellent physical build, he had perfect technical-tactical preparation and great game intelligence. He started his career in the top flight as a midfielder. Already at the age of 20, he was a conductor in charge of not only Ferencvaros, but also the national team. He was an excellent supporter of the work of the forward line. He also delivered pinpoint passes to his companions over long distances. He bravely broke forward and also undertook shots. He also proved to be full-fledged in defense. Although he avoided close combat as much as possible, with his exceptional sense of pace and splendid head play, he almost always snatched the ball away from his opponents. It soon became clear that he was also capable of outstanding performances in the offensive line. He fully enforced his control skills and situational awareness as a striker. Added to this was his great scoring ability. He proved to be a master in both preparing and exploiting situations. He was mentioned as one of the most prominent players of his time throughout Europe and was recognized as a world-class footballer. On 20 June 1937, in the match between Central Europe and Western Europe (3:1), he was the left winger and captain of the Central Europe team. Among his many outstanding performances, his centre-forward game against Czechoslovakia on 19 September 1937 stands out. He played his part in the big victory with 8:3 with seven goals! This "record" has not been achieved in a Hungarian football and national team match since then. In 1935, he scored three goals against the Austrians (6:3). After the liberation, he played in the top flight for a while.
At the end of the forties, he left for Italy, just like his younger brother, also with permission."
(Again, left wing means inside left here - PDG)

† Sas Ferenc (Devecser 1915.08.16 - Buenos Aires 1988.09.03) • People • Magyarfutball.hu - Hungarian football database
"The small player can be counted among our most outstanding right wingers. In terms of speed, he may even surpass all his rivals. His dribbling was lightning fast and smooth. He dribbled brilliantly and crossed excellently. Before crossing, he usually looked up and rolled or curved the ball exactly to the "desired" place. The modesty of the extremely solid young man on the pitch sometimes manifested itself in timidity. However, with his irresistible momentum and great body dribbles, he mostly avoided collisions with defenders. His international class is proven by the fact that on 20 June 1937, in the match between Central Europe and Western Europe (3:1), Sas was one of the strengths of the Central European team, and with his two magnificent goals, he was one of the heroes of the victory.
Perhaps the best performance of his national team career came on 3 May 1936, in a match against Ireland (3:3).
After the 1938 World Cup, he emigrated to South America. He played there with great success for years. He lives in Argentina but often visits home"

† Schaffer Alfréd (Budapest 1893.02.13 - Prien am Chiemsee 1945.08.31) • People • Magyarfutball.hu - Hungarian football database
"Alfréd Schaffer is still able to surprise people almost eighty years after his death.

"Well: that's how you have to play football!" Allegedly, this sentence left the mouth of the good Spéci when he was out of the game after his ninth goal in the home match against Rimavská Sobota in Lučenec. Schaffer "had a job in Lučenec in his youth. Of course, he was also involved in football there and led the training sessions of Losonci AC." LAC played poorly that day, Schaffer was furious in the auditorium, and then, tired of the scrambling, he changed his clothes and sent himself to the court. Then – he started to produce goals.

The story was revived in the 19 June 1932 issue of Nemzeti Sport, but it is dated much earlier, in 1913. And it is completely unknown to posterity.

It is well known that Schaffer, who had a wonderfully convoluted and successful career, was transferred from Tatabánya to the BAK in September 1912. It is also known that at the end of 1913 he asked to transfer to MTK, and from the following year he strengthened the ranks of the blue and whites. It is known that the small BAK – officially Budapesti-Csepel AK between 1910 and 1915 – lived its heyday in the first half of the 1910s, won a championship bronze medal in 1911–1912, and a year later it was a finalist in the Hungarian Cup. Alfréd Schaffer also took an active part in the success. Then he spent most of the summer holidays, a hundred kilometers from the capital, in Lučenec in the Highlands.


Alfréd
Schaffer In the autumn of 1912, the correspondents of Az Újság, which maintained a prestigious sports column, watched the footballer from Tatabánya with keen eyes. According to the paper, "it will rise to the representative class very soon. His advanced technique is coupled with powerful shots, he himself is a player with a strong physique, so his beautiful football career is predictable." After the losing BTC-BAK (2:0) league match in October, they wrote about him as follows: "Schaffer distributes the ball as splendidly as no Hungarian centre-forward has done so far, but his partners, with the exception of Wolensky, made mistakes in everything." It went well for him – and he was rewarded.

His name was first mentioned in the composition of the national team before the Hungarian-Austrian (4:0) match in Budapest, as Sport-Világ put it on 14 October 1912, "we would consider Schaffer (BAK) to be the most suitable place for the centre-forward, who is slow compared to the others, but bright, distributes the ball excellently and shoots equally well with both feet". Schaffer seemed to have read the lines, two weeks later his club beat MTK, who were playing irregularly, 1:0 in the league with his goal. "György and Schaffer will be great in their positions in the national team," was the prediction-like assessment of Sport-Világ. The fact that the BAK center did not get a chance against the Austrians on November 3 is not his fault – the selectors only nominated him to the reserve team alongside Bródy, Kürschner, Ferenc Weisz and Kertész II, among others – but in the end, no one missed him, after all, the attacking five of Sebestyén, Bodnár, Pataki, Schlosser and Borbás did their job excellently. Imre Schlosser scored twice, Sándor Bodnár and Mihály Pataki scored once each.

Schaffer's name reappeared in May 1913 when the representative team was assembled, although again among the reserves. Head coach Ede Herczog did not expect it during the 2:0 success against Sweden (scorers: Pataki, Schlosser). Spéci's absence from the national team was attributed by the papers to the lack of sufficient first-class routine, dHe tried to change this state. At the very least, in the spring of 1913.

Schaffer, who scored a total of 12 times in the autumn, also scored 12 times in league and cup matches and international friendlies in the spring; And if we only take into account his league goals in the 1912-1913 season, he scored 13 goals, according to press sources. He really got into the game in the spring rush: he scored seven goals in the last five competitive matches. Five of them in the Hungarian Cup, in three matches.

The Hungarian Cup march of the BAK players began in April in the so-called intermediate matches, against Spéci's previous club, Tatabányai SC, which they defeated 4:2 at Üllői Road. Schaffer did not score a goal at that time, unlike in the semi-final against MAC, in which he scored four times – in two acts, as the match at Hungária út ended in a draw (2:2, Schaffer doubled), so it had to be repeated. For the second time, the blue-blacks won (4:1) at Üllői Road, their goals were shared by Schaffer (2), Késmárky and Salamon.

In the final held on 1 June, the BAK consisting of Ferenc György – Gyula Ludwig, Hugó Neubrunn – Kálmán Szury, Jenő Károly, Ernő Rudas – János Cseh, Sándor Salamon, Alfréd Schaffer, Ákos Késmárky and Sándor Gállos pushed the buffalo-strong FTC, who won the championship for the fifth time in a row this season and played at home, but could not beat them. In the first half of the match, which ended in a 2:1 victory for Ferencváros, István Tóth-Potya and Imre Schlosser scored, and after the break, Alfréd Schaffer scored. Pesti Hírlap: "BAK does everything to equalize, but even the most secure balls get stuck in Fritz's hands. Despite all the efforts, the result did not change."

On the same day, the BAK I/b team visited LAC in Lučenec and won 3:1. In the match, which took place in front of a large audience, the capitals fought for the victory only with great difficulty, by taking two penalties. It is not inconceivable that the representatives of the two clubs slapped each other's hands at this time, that the ambitious, resourceful Schaffer, who moved to Lučenec for a few months in the summer, would temporarily take care of the local "athletes". Maybe for money, maybe for free, who knows...

The Miskolczi Estilap was one of the first to report on the special guest appearance in the Hungarian press (9 July 1913): "Losonczi AC–Rimavská Sobota AC 14:1. Last Sunday, LAC scored a record-breaking number of goals in the goal of the team from Rimavská Sobota, which played a friendly match with them in Losoncz. The big superiority is somewhat explained by Schaffer's (BAK) performance at LAC, who scored 10 goals himself."

Three days later, Az Újság already knew the result, but it seemed as if there was a mistake in its report (and not only regarding the striker's number of goals): "The Athletic Club of Rimavská Sobota held its second exhibition match on Sunday. This time he went to Losoncz, where his opponent was the Losoncz Athletic Club. After a nice game, the match ended with a 14:1 victory for the team from Lučenec. Aladár Schaffer (sic!), an excellent goal scorer of the Budapesti-Csepel AK, also played in the LAC team and scored seven goals alone."

Exactly how long Schaffer spent in the summer of 1913 in Upper Hungary is not known, according to our calculations, he must have spent about one and a half or a maximum of 2 months there, in mid-August, he was probably back in Pest. "Schaffer, the player of BAK is currently in Lučenec," wrote Sporthírlap on 4 August 1913 in its column titled Pickford, while the Somogyi Hírlap published on 20 August published the line-up of BAK for the same day's publicity match against Kaposvári AC with Schaffer's name as well. Two days later, it turned out that the "phenomenal player" had also played on it."

† Schlosser Imre (Budapest 1889.10.11 - Budapest 1959.07.18) • People • Magyarfutball.hu - Hungarian football database
The "hoofed", elongated, characteristic movement "Slózi" is an outstanding personality and a representative of our football sport with great ability. Among the Hungarian players, his fame was the first to take off throughout Europe. Not only with his excellent skills, but also with his modest, sympathetic demeanor and sportsmanlike manner of play, he gained countless followers for football. Perhaps the greatest significance of his performance can be found in the enormous popularizing effect of his playing. In his heyday, for at least a decade, thousands of people – both in the capital and in the countryside – made a pilgrimage to the tracks week after week for his sake. (These spectators gradually became loyal supporters of football.) "Slózi" knew very well – to play football! Although he was heavily left-footed, he handled the ball impeccably, dribbled fiendishly, worked tirelessly, and distributed selflessly in the field. In terms of scoring ability, he was unrivalled in Hungarian football until Schaffer's appearance. He aimed at the goal from every position, near and far, with both feet and head. At the peak of his success, even in the flood of popularity, he remained a simple, always honest and devoted member of his club team and the national team eleven. This is why it has enjoyed its unprecedented popularity ever since.

He played in the top flight for more than two decades. He also played for the national team for 21 years. He was 38 years old when he last played in a crested jersey. Based on this, "Slózi" is the "age president" of the army of more than half a thousand national team players.

His greatest success came on 29 October 1911, in a match against Switzerland (9:0). At that time, he "delighted" the guests with six goals. In 1912, he scored five goals against Tsarist Russia (12:0). In three more matches (1909. Austria 4:3, 1911. France 3:0 and 1912. Germany 3:1), added three goals each to their rich "harvest".

After his retirement, he also served domestic football with whistles for a few years. It was worth the 100th meeting against the great rival, Austria. At the match that took place on 16 October 1955, standing between Kocsis and Puskás, with his legs trembling with emotion, while celebrating the appreciative crowd of hundreds of thousands, the unforgettable "Slózi" took the kick-off. This was his farewell performance. He passed away for good in July 1959.

 

What do you think of these two teams I created, dividing the 20th century into two parts? Do you think any footballers from the second half of the 20th century will still be around in 2050? @PDG1978

 

at Defending Set-Pieces ...


would concede

many goals


and in the air also from Open-Play ....with crossing ...and ..Long range-Balls ..

and

The good part...from this Team ... 2 ...

is difficult to disarm...tackling

a team with several

False 9s in the attack...

the defenders

could easily get lost

without a well-guided

mixed-marking system . !

 

For the second question (for my viewpoint) for sure yes, unless we are about to enter an absolute golden period in football history very soon! It is more difficult to properly assess whether any first half 20th century players could have merited a place in an all-20th century XI I guess (such as Andrade as attacking right back rather than a Carlos Alberto, or Meazza as 'Maradona alternative' or whatever) even though my inclination is to doubt it, from what I saw (not enough surely though) and know.

If I would be inclined to make any adjustments to your XIs (anyway your choices seem in the ballpark for representative XIs of the top players, and it can come down to personal judgement/preferences) I guess I could think Gyorgy Sarosi in Orth's slot and Orth moving to where James is could seem feasible for example, or Piola as CF and Meazza moving to Scarone's place. Maybe Sindelar for Moreno if not requiring the inside left to be such an all-round player.... For 2nd half of century I guess I could be inclined to say Baresi (as another CB) for Matthaus, and perhaps re-shuffling to a Christmas Tree system for example (or 4-3-1-2 perhaps, with Beckenbauer as the central mid and kind of 'midfield sweeper') could see Platini in for Puskas. Also Van Basten for Di Stefano if I would go with more of a true CF I guess....

 

I think Sárosi hasn't managed to surpass Orth's legacy. Even the IFFHS has Orth in Hungary's starting lineup, not Sárosi.

https://www.iffhs.com/posts/1436

It's also interesting that no one thinks of Bican for the first half of the 20th century, nor of Gerd Müller for the second half of the 20th century, despite both being the best goalscorers of their era.

Bobby Moore or Baresi, it's just a matter of taste. I think Moore was technically better than Baresi.

From 31 full matches I watched for 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿Bobby Moore, he has averaged 6.29 accurate long passes per game. I can’t think of any CB from the last 15 years of available stats with a higher rate despite the average number of passes per game increasing drastically compared to the 1960s. pic.twitter.com/WIEmyhSde3

— Ghimar Statistics🇸🇾 (@Ghimarstats) April 21, 2025

 

Yes, they did recently (arguably with Mezsoly, Kocsis and Kubala in more suitable positions for Sarosi though perhaps?), although for what it's worth back in 1999 the IFFHS voting resulted in 16 pts to Sarosi and 2 to Orth....
IFFHS' Century Elections

I agree on the observations re: Moore's technical qualities and passing, although Baresi had physical advantages in pace and reactions etc. Like I said for my own idea I would include both probably (maybe seems more suitable for 2nd half of century to have a back 4 too, although I can tell you preferred to stick with the older-fashioned back 3...plus you could move Beckenbauer to libero anyway of course in theory, even if Moore was more of a playmaking centre back than outright stopper centre back himself).

 

This is a nice piece on Moore by the way:
How Ron Greenwood sent Bobby Moore on his way to football immortality | West Ham United F.C.

 

What do you think about this? @PDG1978

 

I think that is from the (late, I guess) 1930s is it (relating to when JImmy Seed managed Charlton Athletic and Jimmy Oakes played for them)?

I think it shows just how highly regarded Matthews already was at that time. I guess some would agree with and some disagree with the sentiments on Matthews compared to James probably (just like there would be varying perceptions, to some extent at least, on for example Orth vis a vis Sarosi and later Puskas/Bozsik/Hidegkuti...., or on Scarone vis a vis Schiaffino for those that knew both of them, or on Moreno vis a vis Pedernera, and Schiaffino or even Valentino Mazzola vs both of them....). It shows well the fact that some people in the game (and fans of the game) already saw Matthews as top British/world player at that time anyway surely.

 

Interesting read about Matthews changing position for 2nd half and improving his game

 

That's the role he ended up in in England-Czechoslovakia too in December 1937.

 

Seems like Garrincha vs England in WC62

 

A little bit in effect I guess, although Matthews had swapped into an inside position fully it seems, with somebody else in his wing position I think. In that Stoke game it was a tactical switch it seems like, while in England-Czechoslovakia the injured player took the wing position with Matthews going to inside forward (inside right maybe, although he did emerge in the inside left position to score anyway):
England Match No. 214 - Czechoslovakia - 1 December 1937 - Match Summary and Report

Looking more closely I suppose the Stoke vs Charlton game referred to is from 1939/40, since there is a comment about this Ireland game from "last season" (Cristiano Puskas has posted quotes/reports etc about his performance in this game on a specific thread also):
England Match No. 222 - Ireland - 16 November 1938 - Match Summary and Report
Indeed it will be the 4-0 ("first game of the season") indeed I think:
1939–40 Stoke City F.C. season - Wikipedia

 

Oh! one of those was because an injury player.

It seems at that time, when substitutions wasn't allowed (even for injury cases), the injured players were being placed at Outside Forward (sort of less important role, maybe?), and some fit players were moved to fill defending roles, much more if the injury players was an defender or half.

I read, at some ocassion one player from bpth sides were injured and their managers decided to put them both at wingers, one at front of the other, in a tactically "zero move"

 

An example that comes to mind is in '58, when Jonquet got injured by Vava, left the pitch a tad before half-time, got an injection and "played" the second half at LW (Vincent going at the back). Jonquet could not play at all as he had a fracture so France were playing with 10 men in fact and you can see there's no solution by the left hand of the pitch in that second half. He was on the pitch during all this time with a fracture. IIRC, he plays one or two balls in the beginning of the second half and one can see it's useless to count on him.

Another case I have in mind, that occured a bit later, is for example Keegan, back from injury against Saint-Etienne, who mainly played wide on the left. In '77. Keegan looked like he was recovering well. 1-0 Sainté at Geoffroy-Guichard then 3-1 L'pool at Anfield.
I can't find other examples that would be in-between these two extreme cases.
Later than that too again, I think that players who were not at 100% but very important in the squad could be lined-up more on the wing or deeper on the pitch. In the 80's, even 90's...
Or came from the bench (at this point in time), strangely being able to play a given length of time with intensity even high intensity in some cases...

 

I was not quoted regarding this, but if I am allowed to say something, I would say it would eventuallty make sense if we take account each perspective. There were some people who played against James and Matthews and said the Scotchmen was better. However, Matthews at a very young age was already regarded as the best of all-time even for people who saw Ker and Nick Ross kicking a balll.

John Arthur Brierley — "Perseus" —, who I consider to be the zenith of knowledge regarding old football and who wrote more articles/columns than I made steps on my whole life said this regarding these two:

Now it is Stanley Matthews' turn to beat Hapgood's total, and it is probable that his figure will stand unchallenged under prevailling conditions. So his achievement is to be specially recognised by the F.A., and a truly brulliant player will be fittingly acclaimed.

I shall always regard him and Alec James — now freed from suspension by the F.A. — as the two greatest craftsmen the game has known in their individual positions, with James the paramount genius as a man who was ever able to subordinate himself to the needs of others.

Matthews stands alone as a master in concentrated form of ball control, feint, body swerve, speed, and incalculable trickery, the most baffling problem any back has ever had to tackle in a current phrase, the real "glamour man" of the game.

Yes, Matthews was among Crabtree and Needham or even above regarding level. If we take into account longevity and level reached. Matthews belonged to the "different class" of all-timers.

 

Pele vs Portugal is an example in 1966 of course too (maybe he was more severely inhibited than the English player in 1937 but I'm not sure tbh).

Here is a game where a player left the pitch injured (inside right Mannion) and a winger (Finney) moved into his position, so nobody was playing as left winger for England then in effect:
England Match No. 262 - Scotland - 14 April 1951 - Match Summary and Report

 

G. Orth

202 games (17897minutes)
151goals (33 Opening, 43 Clutch, 38MWG, 16 HT, 5Hd, 2PK, 4FK)
57 assists (22 Clutch)
3
Team GF 666, 147W-27D-26L

Don't you think it's a very short career and normal statistics for someone of his time?

 

Maybe @CristianoPuskas can say if that assist total looks similar to what he has been able to determine from match reports himself.

I guess some factors to consider are that Orth played quite a big amount of games in a deep position on the field, so his stats are derived from games like that combined with games playing as a forward (like somebody such as Ruud Gullit for example too; albeit from what I understand, even though @Isaías Silva Serafim and CristianoPuskas will know more than me anyway, Orth would have been involved a lot in play creation when playing in a deeper role but presumably not so much surging into the attack like Gullit would sometimes do from a sweeper position) - (this aspect of playing in both deep and attacking positions is also true for Gyorgy Sarosi of course though) and also that he had a bad injury and then did make a comeback still afterwards so a portion of his games are from after the comeback.

I suppose relatively low clutch goals/assists can be partly to do with the high scores in many games (I probably find overall clutch goals totals a bit dubious myself anyway though as an indicator of significance even if obviously sometimes clutch goals/assists will be very significant and also can be very good quality wise and decisive in close/even games...so I don't say there isn't value in looking into them at all). If those stats were correct I see a slightly higher percentage of his assists would be clutch ones than with his percentage of goals (albeit still with a higher clutch goals tally than clutch assists tally apparently). I guess those who claimed Orth was a better player than Sarosi were basing that to a large degree on things like controlling/initiating the game (like someone like Redondo?) and creative passes (a la Michael Laudrup for example) while having good end product for a player who does these things to a high level as well.

 

By the way @CristianoPuskas this isn't really relevant for this thread (except to say that before 1925 the offside rules were even more prohibitive to attackers) but re: the 1994 CL Final it seems to me here the wrong Milan player is being highlighted (it should be the one who is actually offside as back then it didn't matter that he didn't play the ball eventually):
Fußballkönig on X: "@EHcomps almost all linesmen pre2000s were on drugs" / X
BBC SPORT | Football | Think you know your offside?
"An amendment to the rule was introduced at the start of the 2003/04 season, which allows a player to be in an offside position provided he or she is not "actively involved in play"."

I guess that rule came in just as you first started having interest in football, and maybe the original commenter (that posted the freeze frame) is also similarly young....