Pre/pbp/post 7/17/2011 WWC USA vs. Japan

Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by elvinjones, Jul 13, 2011.

  1. AMBreakers

    AMBreakers Member

    Boston Breakers, Boston Univ. Women's Soccer, Norwich City, Charleston Battery
    Jun 21, 2010
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Boston Breakers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Size has nothing to do with it, it's that only two or three players on the Japan team would be sure starters on a WPS team whereas every player in the USA starting lineup is.

    Of course Japan makes up for that by playing well together and being technically sound, but the point still holds-this is a game USA should have won.

    I think Pia's skill in psychological motivation was the reason they got to the final, but her unwillingness to change from a possession based system that is more suited for an underdog than a WPS all star team is also the reason they lost it.
     
  2. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's called the "Donovan".
     
  3. Val1

    Val1 Member+

    Arsenal
    Mar 12, 2004
    MD's Eastern Shore
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Except that you are forgetting that the PK solution is not 1 player taking the penalty, but 5 penalties. It remains a team effort, so if one player skies the shot or the keeper makes a save, there should be another player who can hopefully rectify the situation.

    I also doubt your assertion that it is a crap shoot. Seems to me that the teams that take the best penalties, from 1 - 5, generally win shootouts. We took worse penalties and we lost. Doesn't seem that random to me.

    I think after 120 minutes of play, we've seen enough of the teams to know that they are pretty level. I'm OK with sudden death, but being an American I'd just as soon see sudden death for every game. But the one thing the game cannot do is declare a tie and say, well, let's just come back and play another day. the game needs to be decided once and for all.

    But the best reason for PKs is that they are dramatic, and the drama of seeing who is going to win is ultimately why we watch sports. And they are really really simple.

    About the only recommendation being floated about for fixing PKs is the addition of more subs in overtime. I've always felt that if a game goes to OT a team should get a 4th sub just as a matter of course.

    You're dreaming. Maybe only Kinga and Ando wouldn't make a WPS team.
     
  4. ironduke2010

    ironduke2010 Member

    Mar 18, 2005
    A2, MI USA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    sounds like fifa recently considered bringing back the golden goal.

    i haven't read the whole thread with regards to extra periods. but it seems to me the "play 'till someone scores" approach would go a long way to addressing the reason the golden goal was abandoned in the first place; namely, teams opting to defend and take their chances in the shootout.
     
  5. striker

    striker Member+

    Aug 4, 1999
    I'll make a note to not ask you to coach my team in the future.
     
  6. dsirias

    dsirias Member

    Oct 26, 2007
    I dont like the golden goal. There are too many coaches in the world who would decide they are the lesser overall than thier opponent on the pitch, but stonger in a shootout. And hence minute 90-120 turn ugly.
     
  7. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Member

    Jul 18, 2011
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Why replace Megan Rapinoe? I really don't understand.
     
  8. katie14

    katie14 Member

    Apr 17, 2002
    Ohio
    That's the million dollar debate. Depends on who you ask... some thing she looked tired and we needed to sub her out but the majority don't understand it either. No one but Pia/ the coach staffing really knows the answer to that one.
     
  9. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Member

    Jul 18, 2011
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Other players were no better and they didn't play as well as her. I felt something bad could happen when she was subbed, so sad it came true.
     
  10. rtung

    rtung Member

    Aug 20, 1999
    Chicago, IL, USA
    Solo could have easily sidefooted it to the touchline if the ball had rolled to her. Yes, Krieger had only a second to make that decision and yes Buehler made the first mistake of not clearing it away cleanly (by the time she fell on her butt, the only thing she could do was knock it towards Krieger, which was the smart thing to do, as not doing anything would have let Miyama run on to it), but during the game, there were several times where Japanese defenders had to make a split second decision about where to turn or pass in/near their box with a US player breathing down their neck where the wrong decision would have meant a dangerous opportunity for the US, but they always made the right decision. In fact, Krieger had time to decide what to do as she could see Buehler get up and knock the ball towards her.

    Looking at it again, Krieger actually also had the option of not sticking her foot out and letting the ball roll past her or strike it in the same direction, which would have been the best choice, as knocking it in front of goal is always the most dangerous thing. As a defender, you have to know roughly where the opposing players are.
     
  11. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Member

    Jul 18, 2011
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    I really think Solo should yell and rush out, clean the ball out when Buehler was blocking the Japanese striker(not sure can she use the hands to grab it, is it a back pass by the defender?).
     
  12. rtung

    rtung Member

    Aug 20, 1999
    Chicago, IL, USA

    Playing OT with subs is also a perversion of the game, but less of one (IMHO) than PK's, because it's still soccer being played, and better at deciding which team is better (has the better depth). I certainly wouldn't call an OT with subs a crapshoot as the team with better subs should do better.
     
  13. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Member

    Jul 18, 2011
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    The thing is Pia replaced the wrong player.
     
  14. rtung

    rtung Member

    Aug 20, 1999
    Chicago, IL, USA

    Not realistic. Miyama would have gotten there first and in any case, Buehler had another Japanese player behind her and had fallen to the ground. Neither Solo or Krieger would have gotten to that ball before a Japanese player. Once Buehler hit the ground, she did the right thing of poking the ball away. At that point, Krieger has to be aware enough to not knock the ball right in to the path of a Japanese player.
     
  15. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Member

    Jul 18, 2011
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Solo was clearly closer to the ball at that time, if she decided to rush out she would make it.
     
  16. rtung

    rtung Member

    Aug 20, 1999
    Chicago, IL, USA
    OK, you're right, Solo was closer than Miyama to the ball, however, while Buehler was closest, she was on the ground and another Japanese player was second closest. As boxing out isn't allowed in soccer, Buehler has no idea where the Japanese player behind her is and no way to impede her/keep her from getting to the ball before Solo. She did the right thing of trying to clear the ball.

    It just wasn't a great clearance and Krieger made it worse by knocking right in the path of Miyama.
     
  17. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Member

    Jul 18, 2011
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    That Japanese player could not get up at that time, Solo could see the Japanese attack movement clearly from her position so I think she should rush out and yell to let others know her movement.

    Overall there is better thing to do than "assist" the opponent.
     
  18. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    1. Rapinoe was toast-- its really not hard to see if you just watch her and nothing else for the eight or ten minutes leading up to the sub. Her effort was still intense, but her results were getting very random. Gotta be the longest outing of her career.

    2. When Cheyney gets hurt, who would you sub? If you would sub A-Rod then fair enough; but if you thought, as I imagine most of us did, that Morgan was the right choice, well how you gonna get Rodriguez into the game after that? There's three players she can sub for-- Abby, Morgan, and (sort of) HAO. Which one do you want to take out? If Cheyney stays in Rapino can come out and Cheyney move there, or Lloyd and Cheyney move there, or Cheyney be subbed directly or...

    3. Saving a sub when your GK is struggling physically and PKs are likely/possible seems like a reasonable, even sensible thing to do.

    4. If Heath is your weak spot on PKs, doesn't putting her third seem a good idea? If the two before her make it, then she misses, there are still two stronger shooters to come and Hope has two or three chances knowing she has to get at least one... Its only when the first two miss that putting Heath there looks bad, and when that happens its almost surely already lost, no?

    5. We have people posting that we lost because we went into a shell when we went a goal up; we also have people posting that we lost because we didn't go into a shell when we went a goal up.

    Its an elimination game-- when we went a goal up with little time to play, Japan started taking risks with numbers. Inevitably we had a harder time clearing it out of our own end. This is not going into a shell. Also inevitably when we got across the midline, we looked more dangerous-- this is not playing recklessly.

    (Me, I bring Morgan off and put Mitts on after the OT goal and tell her to just chase the ball, period-- burn the rest of your career in the next ten or fifteen minutes, because this is all you're ever gonna get. Use what's left of the speed that made you famous. Everybody else plays the same as they already are, and Abby becomes a target palyer if it seems a good idea, a second Boxx if not.

    But that would not be going into a shell and not be playing recklessly either-- it would just be doing something unexpected to make life hard on the other guy...)

    6. In the end the difference in the game was the red card play. If that foul is in the box, its over. As it was, they were hardly even hurt.
     
  19. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    Deleted duplicate post
     
  20. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Member

    Jul 18, 2011
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Why Morgan? She's the perfect weapon to make counterattack.

    Also I think the players are not sure go into a shell or not, so this caused we were not able to set better counterattack or possess the ball.
     
  21. REALfootballRulez

    May 25, 2007
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, they said FIFA dumped the golden goal because most teams played not to lose so it became a very boring 30 minute overtime.

    Good decision. PKs are the most dramatic moment in sports along with penalty shots in hockey so keep it!
     
  22. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    At that point-- the OT-- I would not really be trying to score, only to make them run ragged just to posess.

    And I would leave Abby on in case they tied it anyway. At that point Mitts goes to Amy's spot, Amy goes to Rampone's. Rampone becomes a forward for a few minutes for the first time in about 15 years, and we still have Abby as a shooter when it goes to free kicks.
     
  23. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Member

    Jul 18, 2011
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    I'm not saying we should score(Of course it'll be good), but we need her to make threat, let Japan not be able to fully press up. It's always dangerous to sub your most dangerous weapon in counterattack when the opponent was overloading their attack.

    In the final they seems lost thought on attack, actually it's simple, send Morgan the through ball whenever possible.
     
  24. REALfootballRulez

    May 25, 2007
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Who?
     
  25. StarCityFan

    StarCityFan BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 2, 2001
    Greenbelt, MD
    Club:
    Washington Freedom
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If she's the weak spot, she should be 11th, not 3rd. In terms of confidence, Morgan would have been much the better choice if you're going to go with a rookie.
     

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