Practice Notes & Quotes 7-06-02

Discussion in 'D.C. United' started by Catch, Sep 6, 2002.

  1. Catch

    Catch New Member

    Feb 24, 2002
    Strangle, VA
  2. Barbara

    Barbara BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 29, 2000
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    :) Excellent! Congrats to Jaime and Mrs. Jaime.
  3. Th4119

    Th4119 Member

    Jul 26, 2001
    Annandale, VA
    Congrats to the Morenos!

    If we go 4-5-1 tomorrow Summer's will be quite the place to be for foul language, and a general feeling of helplessness. I hope he's bull shitting about that one and we come out with 3 forwards blazing.
  4. CHICO13

    CHICO13 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 4, 2001
    SECTION 135
    The Strongest La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    What are you saying Thamlin, that the Rev's read :D
  5. Jose L. Couso

    Jose L. Couso New Member

    Jul 31, 2000
    Arlington, VA
    Thanks for the link Catch.

    Great report Diceson!

    Congratulations to the Moreno family. Best wishes.

    I still remember meet the team day in 2000 at DC United park when Jaime came with his new born baby daughter. How time flies!

    I hope Jaime scores a goal to celebrate the birth!
  6. DigitalTron

    DigitalTron New Member

    Apr 4, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    Blech! Well I sure hope the tactics discussed are a smokescreen, because playing Nelsen as a wing and Olsen as a starting forward when we have Zambrano doesn't sound too good to me.

    If we were going 451, why not start Curtis. He could tire out Llamosa and would be well fitted for a counter-attacking formation. Then we could bring Moreno, Zambrano and Villegas in as subs with M & Z up top and V in Olsen's spot.

    Oh well, good luck United, I'll be rooting for you regardless!

  7. eltico

    eltico Member

    Jul 16, 2000
    Play your best XI, formation be damned. But I question whether ITT is better/more valuable than Zambrano or Q2. Man I hope we win...
  8. RMDad

    RMDad New Member

    Nov 15, 2001
    Fredericksburg, Va.
    CONGRATULATIONS! to the Morenos.
    I too hope Jaime can knock a couple in to honor the arrival.
    Lets hope all the lads can keep out of the book tomorrow, and be available for Thursday.
  9. ursula

    ursula Member

    Feb 21, 1999
    Republic of Cascadia
    The premise that the revs will be coming out with guns blazing is a joke.
  10. Diceson

    Diceson Member

    Dec 21, 1999
    The one thing that I've learned over the last couple of years is that the only people who care about formations are the fans - gives them something to physically geometric to compare notes and complain about when things are going 110%. I've got Nelsen out on the right for the defense. As everyone knows the defense pretty much plays all over the defensive third. I'm guessing that Pope, Nelsen, Prideaux, and McKinley are on the back line. If it must have a nomenclature, I would go with a 3-1-3-1-1 + "Destroyer.'

    With Reyes' playing the 'Destroyer' role against Ralston, he'll obviously be glued to him everywhere on the defense, and when attacking its whereever Senor Reyes can find a seem to exploit.

    McKinley's play will largely be based off of Reyes' effectiveness. If Reyes' forces Ralston to stay withdrawn, then McKinley will push foward to launch some of his classic crosses.

    Pope's effectiveness on charging through the middle during the run of play has been evident over the last couple of games. Williams is remaining back because, to be kind, he sucks in the offensive third. Pope's ability in the air (see McKinley's crosses), and his ability to muscle defenders and screen GKs (see Nelsen's goal in SJ game) makes him a better threat.

    Nelsen will come forward on set piece plays. Prideaux, much like Brian Kamler, probably has the hardest and most accurate outside shot of all the defenders. He will remain in the back and wait his chances.

    The midfield is a little more settled in its role. Williams will do whatever he does. Convey will continue to float down either the right or left flanks (depending on if Villegas starts for Prideaux), and attempt the 'Preki Cutback' or crash into the box looking for a junk goal. Etcheverry is now a midfielder - stop calling him an attacking midfielder. He is assuming the role of Valderama and looking to start the attacks from midfield with his passing, not from the 18-yard box looking for the final pass. If Villegas is starting, then look for him to crack shots from the edge of the box. Although not a classic winger, he just can't seem to take it into the corner, but must instead cut at the angle on goal, his quickness and ability snap shoot on goal is effective - RH wants him to take the quick shot when he gets it, even if it hits the south wall of RFK.

    Olsen becomes the withdrawn forward/attacking midfielder. He likes to shoot the ball, but normally can't because he's stuck out on the wing. Olsen's unpredicatability is what makes him dangerous. He'll pressure the defenses all night long, probably forcing several turn-overs (someone count them!). Obviously turn-overs mean possession. Possession means two things: first, the good guys can score, second, the bad guys can't score - its a simple game.

    Moreno is Moreno.
  11. Victory

    Victory Member

    Sep 20, 2000
    RFK LOT 8
    Diceson, great analysis and commentary. However, I think that one of the main criticisms of such a lineup is the lack of ability to stretch the defense. With only Moreno up top it limits the ability for the team to make deep penetrating run. Without a pure foward Moreno does not have anyone to play off and to create space for. While Ben is a talented midfield players he can not be expected to fufill the role of Moreno's foil from the midfield position.

    I do agree that formations are given to much weight but they do provide an easy way to dialogue about the strategy the team is employing, at least a starting point.

    Thanks for the excellent reports.
  12. Victory

    Victory Member

    Sep 20, 2000
    RFK LOT 8
    And I left this out:

    I think one of the problems with the strategy being employed is that it clogs down the middle and general field of play. That certainly helps the offense but without a player to make the breaking type of run and finish....which primarily created space within the defense for the offense to finish the result is possession without goals. Moreno is good when healthy but he is not the ideal lone target for such a employ that strategy a salary cap friendly Michael Owen type is needed. Yes Owen is incredible and the analogy is poor but his speed not only creates chances but opens up space for other players to attack.
  13. DigitalTron

    DigitalTron New Member

    Apr 4, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    Formations as indicia of roles

    Sure, but the real thing that formations try to target is player roles. You can play a 442 and a 352 exactly the same way, or you can play each entirely differently. The key is what roles each player is responsible for and is allowed to assume.

    I.e., if Reyes is a man-marking Ralston--a great idea IMHO--then you could call him a left back in a 442, a Dmid, an Hmid or a libero. No matter, he has the same role. I think calling him a Dmid or Hmid would be most accurate, because Ralston generally plays an attacking midfielder role, and Reyes would be releasing from the back line much of the time.

    But, Nelsen's best attributes are his organization, defending in tight spaces, and moving forward for aerial opportunities. These are minimized if he plays right back. That's why the experiment with him at right back--even in a true 352--failed miserably under Rongen. The open spaces allow Nelsen's lack of pace to be regularly exploited. Also, being away from the center of the pitch limits his ability to organize well.

    Olsen's game is returning in pieces. While his offense has shown glimpses of it's old form, he's nowhere near being consistently dangerous, nor is he really a threat to score much yet. But, his defensive tactics are back completely. Playing him as a forward is good from the standpoint of keeping him from re-injury, but he simply cannot impact the game there yet. I'd prefer him playing the flank as long as he can do it without risking re-injury.

    So formations are about as accurate indicator of player roles as we have. That's why we fans harp on them so much. To coaches, they see the roles and often mistakenly think that we attribute a different role depending upon a different position. Not true most of the time. We attribute a role from a formation only when we are NOT TOLD the players' roles.

    At least, that's my take on it. :)

  14. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Member+

    Real Madrid, DC United, anywhere Pulisic plays
    Aug 3, 2000
    Proxima Centauri
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Dumb question:

    Are "Dyson" and "Diceson" one and the same?
  15. DigitalTron

    DigitalTron New Member

    Apr 4, 2001
    Arlington, VA
  16. DCU

    DCU Member

    Feb 15, 1999
    Bay Area, CA
    We probably would John, but Marco sucks in the "Valderama" role you described--so does El Pibe, for that matter. MAE has been and always will be most effective when he has the ball in the final third of the field. Regardless of what Trask and Ray "Tactics?" Hudson may think, his talents are utterly wasted elsewhere. [sarcasm]And, by the way, thanks for the humility. I'm sure we've all been duly chided by your "expert" analysis. You ought to give Man U a call. I can't imagine you wouldn't top the list to replace Sir Alex.[/sarcasm]
  17. Diceson

    Diceson Member

    Dec 21, 1999
    Well, let's see, DCUnited plays its best games of the year with Etcheverry playing as a central midfielder, not an attacking midfielder. OIC . . . You don't care how the team plays, just how Etcheverry plays, but this is a team game just in case you did't realize that fact. If your only concern is Etcheverry's play you are correct. Also, I didn't describe it, RH did:

    "I think Marco . . . we saw it in the last few games when we’ve asked him to drop back further and not advancing himself forward. We he does that we seem to be more effective. And that’s what we’ll ask of him on Saturday.”

    As for being an expert, if that were the case I wouldn't being posting here. However, because I've seen the team about 75-100 times over each of the last three years, I'm well informed. I'd say I'm much more informed than someone who lives in California.

    P.S. - I could careless about ManU
  18. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    ### MODERATOR'S NOTE ###

    DCU and Diceson -

    If you'd like to continue this little squabble (and it's unclear to me why you would) then continue it via PM.

  19. DigitalTron

    DigitalTron New Member

    Apr 4, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    In my opinion Etch is best when he plays an advanced role, because he makes good final passes. While he is by far the best holder of the ball in the middle third, he takes too long to advance the ball and it allows defenses to regain shape and become very very difficult to break down. On this team Moreno, Santino, Convey and Olsen can all break down defenders on the dribble, but rarely does the team have even 2 of them at full health. And, passing to an unset defense can provide a lot more good scoring opportunities.

    I'm not trying to rile up an argument, but I don't really see Etch's value as the long ball maestro that he used to be. Likewise, his dribbling skills no longer break down defenses, so I prefer to see him making good short passes. I think McKinley is the only United player that makes good long passes at this point.

    As for the San Jose game, they're best defensive back line has Barrett out wide with Agoos and Dayak in the center. Lately neither Agoos nor Dayak have been healthy or in form, and their replacements are almost as bad as the Columbus back line. The difference in the San Jose game though, was that we actually finished those chances--and note that two involved the aerial game which to this point had been non-existent.

    San Jose's best defender by far was/is Richard Mulrooney. By playing Etch a little deeper there we were able to make quick passes between the members of a 5 man midfield (Etch, Convey, Olsen/Villegas, Williams and Reyes who played Dmid that game really) and triangulate around Mulrooney. Frankly, that was the best quick passing that United has had all season, and was a major reason that Convey was so effective. Normally he is the only one playing the quick passing game, so his success goes unrewarded.

    I think the Revolution back line is vulnerable, and without Hudson Rooney has looked ordinary. We'll get our opportunities, we just need to finish them.

    I think Zambrano or Curtis might be the suprise hero of this game.

    Diceson, thanks yet again for another great and insightful report. I eagerly await your reports as they are entertaining and informative!


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