I will answer your question as short and sweet as I can. OUTSIDE of France 1998 when the host French went to the final and won, who outside of the big 4 made a world cup finals? 2002, nope 1994, nope 1990, nope 1986, nope 1982, nope 1978 --> Dutch my point stands Good bet in 2006 that Italy, Germany, Brazil, or Argentina will make the World cup finals and win!
Interestingly, there has not been a World Cup final that has not included one of the 4 teams EC mentions above. This goes back to 1930, when Argentina made the final vs. Uruguay.
Yeah I agree that those are the four big nations of the past, but we're talking about the present. Football is a lot different now, with many more decent national teams than before.
AND what has changed? Last world cup - your final was Brazil vs Germany? Next summer, dont be surprised if you see Brazil vs Argentina or Brazil vs Italy.
What do they have to do with Italy and Argentina though? And what did Germany do in WC98? Euro 2000? Euro 2004? What has Italy or Argentina shown in the last 10 years?
My point is, THOSE four are the big four. If one isn't there, the other is. They all can't be the best, in 2002 Germany and Brazil went to the final. In 1994 it was Italy and Brazil. In 1990 it was Argentina and Germany. In 1998, France snuck in there with Brazil. In 2006, who knows, it could be two out of the four again or maybe somebody new BUT as history has proved the big four are ALWAYS there.
In the last 10 years: Germany - Euro 1996 winners, quarterfinal of WC 1998, final of WC 2002 Italy - final of Euro 2000, quarterfinal of WC 1998 Argentina - quarterfinal of WC 1998 (lost to Holland due to a stunning Bergkamp goal in the 89th minute), unlucky exit in a very difficult group in WC 2002 (after playing extremely well in qualification)
Perhaps we should say that any definition of a powerhouse is going to be slightly unsatisfying, if only because success is so rare in world football. You have to think that there's a major tournament only once every 2 years and to make a final is a big achievement. In any case I don't see that Saladin has come up with a better definition of what a powerhouse is. If his definition is 'a team that is currently strong', you end up with Ukraine as a powerhouse, and you leave out teams that--as EC says --have historical consistency. It's called pedigree.
What are you talking about? Quit blabbering about nothing. I never said that powerhouses must exist right now. I'm saying that powerhouses of the past aren't really powerhouses anymore. Just Brazil.
The only Powerhouses are the big four, I agree. They are hsitorically and currently top contenders. However, Brasil is far ahead in the "big four" class. To group Brasil with Argentina is ubsurd. The Argies are not even close to us. So those who think the only Powerhouse is Brasil are making a valid point.
You should read some of the other posts in this thread. They pretty much give the lie to this idea. And by the way, being obnoxious when you're already wrong is not helpful.