Disagree with that - it's a very old fashioned way of viewing a striker. A striker's primary task is to create goals. I don't care who scores the goals. I've seen RVN play a critical role in plenty of the goals scored by Scholes at ManU over the past years. People say, ok Ruud, nice backheel on that second goal but that was all. Rubbish, he's doing exactly what a quality striker needs to do. Make a split second decision on whether to try for himself or turn provider to someone in a better position.
You completely ignore the following facts: a) Romania is a quality side; b) the best no. 10 we have potentially has been awful all season and c) Holland scored in the first minute. Judging on the line-up with three defensive midfielders it was a deliberate choice to drop back and play more defensively, and I personally applauded that decision. It's not like we were playing Luxembourg. I expect Holland to play an entirely different game v Armenia.
I agree, Cocu has been consistent although he had a bit of a lapse during the last EC but I disagreed with this point. I could see how Bommel, RVN and Landzaat are part of the change or revolution but Cocu has been there forever. Are you suggesting Cocu didn't have the tactical discipline and now does? I honestly don't know how Davids wouldn't be considered more technically gifted than van bommel and Landzaat. Davids is not only known for his positioning and defending, he is known for his explosive speed and dazzling dribbling skills. His passing ability is above average too. They are both very good players but the only advantage both these players would have over an in-form Davids is height. Davids wasn't part of the World XI and Euro XI teams in 98 and 2000 for only his experience.
I'm saying that Cocu has never had any disciplinary problems in the first place. And again while I respect Davids, he is not a technically more gifted player than Van Bommel and Landzaat. What you've got to remember is that Van Basten is building a team here, selecting players not just on skill and on form but also on personality. Personality-wise Cocu, Van Bommel and Landzaat form a perfect midfield, and they also fit into this side perfectly. With Davids there are some doubts to that.
I never complained about the team selection but I wasn't happy with the amount of pocession Romania got especially in the second half. Holland could've killed the game by retaining more pocession which they didn't. I suggested van der Vaart play on Wednesday against Armenia and never said he should've played against Romania.
Other people say: He shouldnt even have been in Landzaat's way!! Everybody was only thinking, score goddamnit score... luckily that Landzaat wasnt out of concentration after Ruud's interference so he could pass the ball and not shoot it out of the stadium. And I'm not saying that every striker should be judged on only if he scores. I was talking about Ruud specifically. And do realise that we were not playing attacking 4-4-2 like Man u and we do not have a "total footballer" that comes close to Paulie Scholes, so Ruud is pretty much on his own up front. (Yeah ok, we have such a player, but the people here don't really like him that much ) We were playing a defensive 4-3-3. This means, our centre striker is the primary (and only, for that matter) man we expect goals from, we dont even want him to pass, thats up to the wingers and midfielders, just SCORE. And as you could have seen, there were 2 or 3 other occasions where Ruud could have better passed the ball, but still he decided to shoot out of an difficult angle. So it's not all of sudden like RvN has become a type of striker like Bergkamp or Kluivert Scoring goals is his best (and besides running, his IMO only) quality, all other aspects of the game he should be handled by the other players.
I don't think it was Ruud's defending skills that have helped us win that game. And it's total nonsense to say that Ruud works harder than Makaay. Are you saying this only based on that game against England? Makaay is always there where he needs to be. Upfront and scoring. Unless you use him as a leftwinger of course. If he scores at least 1 goal per match as a centrestriker, i really don't care if Ruud works harder. We have plenty of hard workers. Of course Makaay has to be given a fair chance as a centrestriker. He doesnt deserved to be "abused" like against England.
I do like Makaay, all I'm saying is that Ruud is more suited to games vs countries like Romania. I'll say this in Dutch, sorry to the others: Ruud sleurt en knokt en is irritant ook al speelt ie niet goed, Makaay is, hoewel gevaarlijk, vaak onzichtbaar. Ze noemen 'm niet voor niks Das Phantom. Ik denk echt dat Ruud meer een team speler is, je hebt er gewoon meer aan in een moeilijke pot.
******** it! I'm not going to type all that again, just want to focus on the main points; Van Bommel didn't play like he does at PSV, because in this match Van Basten told him to focus on defensive duties and to mark his opponent, which Van Bommel confirmed in the post-match interview. I think it was a good decision of Van Basten to play it defensively. Not too long ago the Romanians totally humilated the German NT we barely managed a draw against. Still we're lucky Cocu scored such an early goal to make playing like that more easy. Ruud is obviously not in form, but I agree with JN, Van Basten choose for RvN, because he knows Ruud is a hardworking player, pressing the defence to keep them at their toes and to prevent them from aiding the attack. If VB wanted a "silent assassin" he should have gone for Mackaay. Babel scored a nice goal, but he was lucky to have scored it and it wasn't crucial. Furthermore it was mainly largely due to the excellent play by Kromkamp, Landzaat and Ruud. Babel also made a lot of unnecessary actions whereby he lost the ball, which instantly created pressure against our midfield and defence, still he scored a goal. Maduro... Both Babel and Maduro have talent, but they obviously haven't performed which would merit their place in Oranje over other players. They belong in Jong Oranje, together with Sneijder, the non-performing brat who is crying to reporters he is frustrated about not being selected to play against Rumania. The only Ajax player I would like to have seen yesterday, played in Jong Oranje, Nigel de Jong who I would like to see been given some playing time as a sub for Van Bronckhorst. It's a disgrace that Davids wasn't called up, we can use somebody like him, if not in the starting 11, for sure as a back-up. Davids is an experienced, skillfull, driven quality teamplayer. I am baffled Van Basten preferred Maduro over him, I even have the suspicion Van Basten would have started Maduro had not Van Bommel scored 3 goals against an Ajax side with Maduro playing. It is the more baffling since Davids is supposed to be the team captain or vice-captain of Oranje. I am sure that Davids would have performed well and have added something extra to the squad, and that by playing in Oranje, would have forced more playing time at Inter. We could certainly use Davids in Oranje. Anyway, I wonder if we will finally see some "traditional Dutch, attacking and dominating" football, Van Basten and his supporters are always talking about against Armenia... Although, I much prefer winning effectively than the defeatist and apologist "it's better to play beautiful and loosing than to win ugly", which has been indoctrinated into the Dutch psyche by Cruyff and his (pro-)Ajax disciples.
I agree with most of what you're saying ADO. I did think Babel had a good game, however, even though it would have made more sense to move Kuijt to the left and bring in Castelen on the right. Like you I'm fed up with Sneijder's antics, he really needs someone to sort him out. Overall though we've got to give Van Basten credit for making Holland play the way the fans want Holland to play: with lots of fight.
Exactly my point. Ruud isn't good enough to help the build-up and create for his midfield. This is why I still criticized him during the EC when he was scoring goals, but doing nothing else.
I never complained about the team selection but I wasn't happy with the amount of pocession Romania got especially in the second half. Exactly. We can't do that against a real quality side with strikers younger than 37, we'll get burned.
Let's look at the facts here people. Romania had more possession, yes, but they had about three shots on target, and Holland had about seven. So even while Holland dropped back, they still were the far more dangerous side. I get the feeling many people criticising the performance on here simply can't get used to Holland dropping back.