Postgame: Canada friendly 9/7

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by eagercolin, Sep 7, 2024.

  1. The Clientele

    The Clientele Member+

    Portland Timbers
    Jun 25, 2005
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It’s sort of mind boggling to me when I see our guys standing around when they should be making or finding space.

    Most of these guys are experienced pros in Europe, but some of the basics seem to elude our player pool.
     
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  2. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I'd say it's something missing from the US development system, but the midfield yesterday was all developed completely outside the US.

    It just seems so intuitive to me to move to get open. Like, in any sport.
     
  3. Geneva

    Geneva LA for Life

    Feb 5, 2003
    Southern Cal
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Always and forever.
     
  4. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think there’s no need for the intensity you’d bring to a competitive match. But whether it’s Canada, Columbia, Japan, or another game, we have lots of examples of friendlies when we aren’t playing as hard as our opponents.
     
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  5. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    We all want to believe this is true, but it never really is. There's a reason Lombardi was able to turn around a team that was winning 1-2 games a year, into an instant .500+ team in 1 season, and perenial winner immediately after. There's a reason Jimmy Johnson could turn around the Cowboys in 2 years. That the Steelers could start a whose who of trash at QB in the nineties and make the super bowl, that Tomlin can be saddled by backup talent at QB, and still go .500+ every season. There's a reason Fergie was Fergie, there's a reason Parcells could win anywhere, Gibbs was the only Redskins coach since 1993 that could take the team to playoffs 2 teams in 3 years w/absolute trash at QB (just like he did in the eighties and 90s).

    At the end of the day coaches have a HUGE impact on both intensity and discipline on the field. You can find countless examples of teams that simply are "different" depending upon who is in charge. Harbaugh was the first Stanford and then Michigan coach in eons to turn their teams into powerhouses after both had been asleep for decades....It's in certain coaches to be discipline oriented guys that introduce dedication and intensity or weaken it.

    We'd like to have players like Tyler, that are just intense regardless of whose in charge, but if we're honest w/ourselves we'll admit that intensity is something only a handful of players naturally have like Messi, like Adams, like Roy Keane (whose just been a delight on that podcast/youtube show)....most are somewhere in the middle or worse, and can be leveled up or down based upon coaching. Right now we've clearly been leveled down, for quite a while. Is Poch a guy who will improve that? I sure hope so.
     
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  6. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    They do it with their club teams..................so its weird.

    I just think what we saw was a surprisingly ( :) ) well coached Canada team all working together in a way they'd practiced a lot. They had a great gameplan.

    All we need to do is watch the Nations League final against Mexico to see the USMNT expertly breaking a press. Different group of midfielders.

    I was so maddened by what I was seeing that I threw the remote across the room around minute 15.

    Its not like what Canada was doing was a surprise. We know how Marsch teams play. We watched Canada at the Copa America.

    I'm not particularly worried about any of this long term. This is why coaching matters. We had an interim coach that in hindsight was in over his head against that caliber of opponent. I mean, Varas has never been head coach for adult professionals before. Coaching the U20s against teens from the St. Vincent & the Grenadines isn't quite the same.........................
     
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  7. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Coaches can absolutely help. I do think there's difference levels in difference sports and not everything carries over across them. American football is one where physical intensity matters more than anything - and where you don't make the NFL without it. Whereas the best basketball coaches have varying styles -- you have Gregg Popovich and Phil Jackson and Steve Kerr on one end, who relied on their players to bring it, whereas a Larry Brown or Thibs are on the other end. Maybe Pat Riley. Note how the more successful ones basically had star players who brought that to the table rather than them.

    A lot of times those coaches get that intensity in player selection. Some guys are on the edge. Some guys are influenced by the total team. But some guys simply don't have it. Some guys have it almost no matter what.

    And I think the other thing we have to realize is the depth of world soccer roles versus, say, the NFL. While the talent pool is much bigger ... most of our squad is out of a job in an NFL set up. One league and that's it? The guys who aren't self-motivated in American football generally simply don't make it unless they have absurd physical talent. In soccer, they can make a career just fine. Even adjusting for the global talent pool, I have to think a guy in the Championship is basically a practice squad or G League player. There's a culling effect.

    So yeah, I think Poch will have a positive effect. But I also think that he has a bigger challenge with this crew to get there. Not a ton of fire and not a ton of player leadership. There's no Michael Jordan to get angry at guys and there doesn't seem to be a Duncan or Curry to set a standard of work ethic that others follow.

    I'm waiting for Pulisic to come out and say "We're not special. We're not that talented. We're not that good. Guys need to be working away from camp to get better." Etc. Very tired of the "we're going to prove who we are" quotes.

    They've proven it.
     
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  8. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I mean, they don't always. McKennie has been benched like 12 times and a couple of those times he was clearly out of shape. Tillman's never played on a team that anyone would even apply basic pressure to in league. Johnny is not the focal point of a build up. Scally has never been even remotely an offensive threat and is simply asked to defend. Richards plays in a back three and is rarely asked to pass. Ream used to be more of a focal point, but has dropped off and lost his job. Musah is a bench/rotational player who has a highlight once in a while but is rarely goal dangerous or truly gamechanging (which, you know, exactly like the US).

    Canada is a talented team and Marsch's style fits them (and international play) very well. But they were not dominating or overwhelming. The press was ... fine. Most of our turnovers were lazy passes or trying to force it into players who simply weren't trying to get open. Both Canadian goals came off of them.

    This was not a case of a swarming defense we could do nothing against. This was a case of lackadaisical effort to build out against a decent press. It was beatable. But not playing like we were.

    Flip the effort levels and we win this easily, and I'm not someone who actually thinks Canada is that far behind us in talent, and certainly not when we are missing four or five of our best players.

    But not moving against a pressing team is a disaster.
     
  9. Bruce S

    Bruce S Member+

    Sep 10, 1999
    I'm waiting for Pulisic to come out and say "We're not special. We're not that talented. We're not that good. Guys need to be working away from camp to get better."
    Only a total assshole would say that
     
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  10. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I don't think that's an asshole statement. I'd say it in the locker room first, but he's including himself in it. And I think someone needs to inform these guys that they aren't entitled to be as good as they think they are without work.

    We've heard it every camp, and despite worsening results, we still got "we're going to show how good we are" blah, blah, blah. How do you say that before this camp and then come out like that? (I do get that Mark McKenzie, who didn't play, said it, but still.)

    It's just the truth. They aren't special. They aren't nearly as good or talented as they think. They come into way too many games thinking that the other team should roll over to their Euro contracts and hype train.

    Sure, the press is the last place you do it... but we've got Zimmerman saying it and Ream saying and Matt Turner saying it and Tyler Adams has said it ... but they've all couched it as 'we've got to work harder' or 'we needed a wake up call' or 'we need to take our opponents seriously.'

    The reality is that this team isn't good enough to not play 100% and win. Period. The other ways haven't gotten through at all.

    So try a different tack.
     
  11. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Tillman was IMO the overall best USMNT player in the match. He is the only player who tried to do anything especially in the first half.
     
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  12. bct81

    bct81 Member+

    multiple (DC United, Dortmund, Arsenal, Leeds....)
    United States
    Mar 17, 2007
    moving around the US every few years ....
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Declan Rice has the emotional IQ not to rub it in the faces of the Irish faithful after he scores. Marsch can't simply say "no comment" about his thoughts about the USMNT coaching situation? That is why I label him a tool. Because there are times when he should just STFU.
     
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  13. bct81

    bct81 Member+

    multiple (DC United, Dortmund, Arsenal, Leeds....)
    United States
    Mar 17, 2007
    moving around the US every few years ....
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    the good part is that is what the pine is for. To clearly communicate.

    to send a message that NO ONE is sacred ... not one person.

    only thing that is sacred is the badge and the jersey and the flag.
     
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  14. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ream was indeed dreadful as I have posted several times in disgust. Cardosa was very poor, Aaronson was missing and Musah was unsure.

    There was no plan or purpose, it was Berhalter-ball distilled.
     
  15. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    For Pete's sake people.

    Folks can badmouth somebody like Weston Mckennie all they want.
    He was one of the best players on Juventus last year.

    Jacob Shaffelburg scored against us. Jacob Shaffelburg. Not Neymar!!!! Shaffelburg has 1 goal and 2 assists for one of the worst teams in MLS.

    The four across their midfield played for Nashville, Grasshoppers, Porto, and Vancouver.
    One of those four players would get into the USMNT "A" team, and I'm not joking.

    That Canada team wasn't 11 Alphonso Davies'.

    Our midfield trio in a 4-3-3 yesterday played for PSV, AC Milan, and Real Betis.
    Not the friggin' Vancouver Whitecaps.

    Coaching matters.

    Our players are more than good enough to beat teams like that. Coaching matters!!! Preparing a gameplan matters. Scouting the opponent and making the correct tactical decisions matter.

    Jesse Marsch explained his gameplan and it was comically simple. Varas walked right into the trap.

    What I cannot stomach is these coaches that say they're going to play it out of the back no matter what, even if it leads to disaster on occasion. Well..................it was obvious from minute 5 that Canada had us tactically dead to rights and it was going to lead to a disaster. How about some kind of tactical adjustment?
     
  16. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That is all on Varas as he has admitted. Trying to introduce new tactics at this late stage borders on incompetence.
     
  17. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    #292 Mahtzo1, Sep 9, 2024
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2024
    No doubt, Ream had a horrible game. I for one expected more from him but was wrong. That being said, whether he was right or wrong about what he said has nothing to do with his play. Perhap
    Just to be clear, my point wasn't to indict Europe in any way but that Europe WAS seen as a cure for poor mentality. The reality was, imo, that we never had a problem with poor mentality in the past (with the possible exception of that wc under Sampson...but there were plenty of other issues there.)

    There were plenty of issues with all of our past teams but mentality wasn't one of them. JJ and Deuce are good examples (strong mentality and heart), but we could make a long list of players that fit that bill...Frankie, Marcelo, Donovan, Bocanegra, Bedoya, Mastroeni, McBride, Cobi, DeMerit just to name a few. Ultimately, I believe that mentality comes from within the individual first, leaders within the team second and the coach third.

    I wasn't really even commenting on the lack of effort vs. Canada. It looked poor to me but only the players actually know. Ream commented and he was on the field. Others within the team know what they put into the game and they have a feel for what their teammates put in and they are the ones that have to hold each other accountable. This one is difficult because the coach is temporary. all he can do is sit those that he felt didn't put the effort in for the NZ game and or had poor performances. Ream may or may not have put his heart into the game but he had a poor performance, so he should sit. Lund (I felt) had a good game and seemed to put his heart into the game so he should start.
     
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  18. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    I would point out that Deuce was that way to some extent. Under Roy Hodgson at Fulham he played defense. He was single minded...play and score goals and he would do anything to meet those goals. If it meant playing defense to play and score goals...so be it.
     
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  19. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You are trying to indict Europe or else why bring it up. I don't recalling any knowledgeable person saying Europe was a cure for poor mentality. Certainly if you have a poor mentality you will not long survive in Europe playing against the best players in the world.

    The match v Canada was the culmination of a white bread team culture and continued over coaching designed to create good little white bread robots.
     
  20. CeltTexan

    CeltTexan Member+

    Sep 21, 2000
    Houston, TX USA
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As the years go by for our players, as these latest American generations come and go, it reminds me of how incredibly well balanced, focused and fun to watch that Japorea2002 era was.
     
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  21. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I mean teams play out of the back because it’s a tactical advantage if you can pull it off, especially against a team with Canada’s press.

    But one of the goals was also just a bad give away by Ream who is supposed to be good with the ball. The other was a bad giveaway by Cardoso whose supposed to better with the ball compared to Adams.

    What’s the coach supposed to do when a player who has the skillset to play out of the back makes such a mistake?
     
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  22. QuakeAttack

    QuakeAttack Member+

    Apr 10, 2002
    California - Bay Area
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fire Greg! Fire the Temp Coach! Fire the new coach! Oh wait, we have a player problem.

    One team played a game, another thought that it was a scrimmage. Credit to Canada for coming out with intensity and playing to what the ref was calling. US was lackluster and slow. Adjustments at half-time was better, but we couldn't overcome a really bad game from Tim Reams and a bad game from Cardosa, along with poor play from Aaronson, Scally and Pulisic. Musha disappearing didn't help either.

    While not perfect, I did like the play of Lund and Tillman. Schulte looks promising. Morris, De La Torre, and Pepi did well off the bench. So, not a complete loss.

    Our new coach may have to be miracle worker. Now, we probably should have played more of a counterattack game and forced Canada of their pressure game. So, it just may be my disappointment speaking.
     
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  23. Yowza

    Yowza Member+

    DC United
    United States
    Oct 23, 2019
    Arlington
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A try hard midfield of Eustáquio, Choniere, and Cornelius, none of whom are rated as highly as a single one of our midfielders, dominated. Some of it was game plan confusion but mostly it was simple want to.

    That has to flip. The US has to match the will of the opponent in order to maximize results.

    They were so easy to mark yesterday and didn’t make Canada work at all. Never mind 50/50’s they were losing 60/40’s. Canada’s midfield is slow but we never made it an issue in the first half.

    Canada’s risk/reward calculation was correct. When we throw the kitchen sink at them it’ll leave us exposed in the back but Bombito and Davies can cover while they make enough mistakes for us to capitalize on. Exactly right.
     
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  24. RedBaron

    RedBaron Member

    Sep 9, 2001
    Pennsylvania
    Club:
    ACF Fiorentina
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think that correcting the attitude/effort/malaise that appears to have infected the current squad goes beyond simply lighting a fire under their asses, or threatening playing time; Pochettino also needs to challenge the entire playing squad to be difference-makers. Too many of the current squad are content to be passengers; how much is a result of their inherent character and how much a result of prior tactical instruction is anybody’s guess. All I know is there is potential for someone beyond Pulisic and Balogun to generate and take chances; whoever is on that field needs to start seeing themselves as equally responsible as the next in being a match winner. And if you won’t accept that responsibility then time to find someone who will.
     
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  25. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    Remember how troublesome that qualifying cycle was, though? There was some definite squeaky bum time.

    (Then we sailed effortlessly through qualifying into 2006...)
     

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