Post-Summer 2012: What did we Learn?

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by Eleven Bravo, Jun 13, 2012.

  1. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    (1) Klinsmann's looks to push the 4-3-3 as our system.

    More specifically, this is a 4-1-2-2-1 with two center backs to do their normal duties, two attacking wingbacks to cover the entire flank, one deep lying defensive midfielder to shield the center backs, two center midfielders to provide cover for the wingbacks and work tirelessly linking the ball from defense to the attack, two wingers that are the creative force of our attack and to both help provide with and to slice into the middle, and a center forward to spearhead our attack and also to work back to bring the ball up to the wingers.

    What did we Learn?
    This is a relatively new system which seemed to be the magic pill for the USMNT against Scotland.... Then, maybe we got a dose of reality. After one of the most impressive USMNT performances of all time, the US got worse and worse.

    I believe the issue with the 4-3-3 is that while it is a highly popular system because when executed properly it is truly beautiful... It is very easy to figure out. I believe we saw this problem in the Olympics too and that's why we got stuffed against Canada and El Salvador. Our player pool does seem to be fitted for a 4-3-3 because it would put Donovan and Dempsey on the field together and closer to goal and it also caters to our player pool by putting more center midfielders on the field, but it is also very predictable. More, while Edu, Jones, and Bradley might be our three best midfielders, but they do not work well together. Time will tell if this is the system we should stick with or should we go with our historically more effective line-up of the 4-4-2.


    (2) The player pool and who Klinsmann viewed as his starters and his back-ups at each position (based on pre-Scotland opinions).

    GK 1. Howard 2. Guzan 3. Rimando
    RB 1. Cherundolo 2. Parkhurst
    CB 1. Bocanegra 2-4. Goodson, Onyewu, Cameron
    LB 1. Johnson 2. Castillo
    DM 1. Edu 2. Beckerman
    MF 1. Bradley, 2. Jones, 3. Torres, 4. Corona
    WG 1. Dempsey, 2. Donovan, 3-4. Gomez, Wondolowski
    FW 1. Altidore, 2. Boyd

    -------------Altidore------------
    ----Dempsey------Donovan----
    ---------Bradley--Jones--------
    ----------------Edu-------------
    Johnson-------------------Cherundolo
    -------Bocanegra--Goodson----
    ----------------Howard----------

    Favorable: Morales, Williams, Agudelo, Zusi
    Notable Omissions: Lichaj, Kljestan, Ream, Shea

    What did we Learn?
    1)-Gomez was the breakout player and became a starter. Also, Torres is a serious contender to start over Edu by sliding Jones in his more natural DM position.
    2)-We have some serious issues with some of our geezers/veterans. Onyewu was downright atrocious and was nearly Jeff Agoos '02/Mike Burns '98 bad, Cherundolo seems to be losing a step, Donovan, after his legendary performance against Scotland that should be heralded as one of the best ever by a US player, was poor and displayed no desire to be on the field, Goodson was alright, and Beckerman and Wondolowski didn't impress nor were given the minutes to do so. However, Bocanegra, Dempsey, Gomez, and Howard were solid in all of their matches which is a good sign. And Jones was sometimes excellent and sometimes mediocre.
    3)-Johnson and Bradley are without question our two best younger players. Altidore had a terrible showing, Castillo was sometimes excellent but sometimes out of control, Parkhurst was neither good nor bad, Torres was pretty good but was out of position, Edu is good at defending in front of the backline but damn he has no first touch, and Cameron is a work in progress.
    4)-The U-23's had a mixed showing. I was impressed by Boyd's work against Scotland. He was a handful. He also put some good work in against Brazil without standing out. However, he was very poor against Antigua and Barbuda and for some reason he had his Eddie Johnson boots on that day because his first touch let him down every time. Meanwhile, Corona was lost when he came in against Scotland and he must have a left a bad taste in Klinsmann's mouth as he did not come close to getting any minutes later.

    (3) Timothy Chandler fiasco

    What did we Learn?
    Nothing really yet but speculation. But it's safe to speculate one of two things... either Chandler is genuinely tired after a long season with his club and doesn't really want to travel to America at this time, or he is saving out for Germany. Either or is not good, and reveals poorly about his personal character to court a national team that is desperate for his services and to string them along when they need him. And anyone who pretends that we do not need him is completely blind. Cherundolo cannot hold the fort down forever and there is a significant drop off after that. It as much of a difference between having Fabian Johnson as a leftback or having Jonathan Bornstein. I hope that he rues his decision and that he will be a part of the team in September.


    (4) Fatigue was an issue.

    What did we Learn?
    Well, we need to start rotating the roster more efficiently, our players need to improve on their fitness on their own time, or Klinsmann needs to quit pushing his players so hard in training if he wants to trot out the same players every match in a short tournament. Either way, our players became increasingly more lethargic with every game. And we need to find the culprit and a way to fix this issue before 2014 if we are to consider ourselves worthy of the knockout stages.

    (5) Injury crisis at Left Back

    What did we Learn?
    I applaud Klinsy for trying to bring a tournament atmosphere to these players and by trying to show that he can adapt and adjust with the FIFA limits of 23 players in major tournaments, but when it is a world cup qualifier, and you have a very promising player left at home (*Lichaj*) you should call that player in when the player above him gets injured.

    Still, i think it is an important lesson that in tournaments players are going to get hurt or suspended and we may have to place a player in a position that he's not exactly comfortable with.

    (6) Qualifying is not guaranteed.

    What did we Learn?
    My final analysis is that i am the least confident about qualifying from the World Cup as i can remember. Maybe for the 2002 and 1998 World Cups, i was too young to really grasp the difficulty of qualifying in CONCACAF, ...but after the fallout of our youth teams and the fact we are not exactly blowing away these teams now, qualifying is not a sure thing to me anymore. I still believe we are favored to advance, but i am worried that the USMNT as players and as fans have become too complacent for our own good.

    (7) We need to take some risks on some players:

    What did we Learn?
    Look at WC 2002, Beasley and Donovan were an absolute revelation there. Then look at WC 2006, Dempsey was a risk but a top performer. Look at 2009 Confederations Cup when we injected Charlie Davies into the fold. Then look at 2011 in the Gold Cup when Freddy Adu turned our team around by carrying the attack on his back. Now, look at when we inject Terrence Boyd into the line-up; while unspectacular against Antigua and Barbuda, you saw a player against Scotland and Brazil who will outhustle every player on the field. The same can even be said about the older Herculez Gomez who had the breakout performance for the USMNT due to his hunger. The point is we can't be afraid to take risks on some of these projects because these players often have that hunger and desire to shine that is often missing from some of the other veteran players... AKA Donovan.
     
  2. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    First, shouldn't a post-summer thread include Mex in Aug, and Jamaica in Sept?

    But we need more guys brought in obviously and given a shot. Not sure at the Azteca is the place to do it but why not? I'd also imagine some of the Euro guys will br breaking in with new clubs. Anyway a few I'd like to see brought in for the preliminary roster in Aug for the friendly.

    Forwards: Agudelo, Sapong

    Mids: Adu, Diskerud, Kljestan, Gyau

    Wings: Shea, Gatt, Pontius

    Defense: Lichaj, Ream, Gonzalez if healthy

    Of course all won't be called in, but at least one from each group and I'd be more than happy for the time being. We need more youth, along with patience with the youth, more width/speed/crossing ability on our wings and I think both Shea and Gatt should be brought in and also think Shea's absence was more due to kicking the ref with the ball and his toe injury than anything else and will be back in Aug, but also really think Gatt should be brought in and introduced to the NT.

    Lichaj, well, it's retarded he wasn't brought in, and unfortunately he very well could be fighting to make an impression with his club come Aug, but hope he's here if possible. Ream needs to be called in again and I was impressed with his play down the stretch at Bolton despite the relegation. Tossup between Omar and John but if Omar is healthy I give him the nod.

    I think many of our problems stem from Jurgen asking guys to do things they're not comfortable with, due to roster mismanagement and limiting his choices. At this point a 4-4-2 is working better for us, but I'm not sure a 4-3-3 can't if his roster selection was better. For a 4-3-3 you need speed, guys staying wide and guys comfortable crossing into the box. We need width. Would have to move Clint inside. But with more creative players and not playing Edu/Jones in advanced positions I think it might work. A 4-4-2 should work better for us but again, based on roster selection and playing Edu/Jones to far advanced, not having a LW or creativity in the mid field, or really enough in the mid field to even advance the ball beyond a pass or two, it won't work either.

    So right now it's hard to say which formation is best until we actually select and slot in the correct players for those formations.
     
  3. USAsoccer1

    USAsoccer1 Member

    Jul 15, 2011
    Sacramento
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I enjoyed your analysis, the one that jumped out to me was the Timmy Chandler. I would have to say that you over thought yourself that we NEED him...I would say it would be nice to have him, especially if he was 100% dedicated to the US and Traveling; however, NO PLAYER is above the team, that is how cancer starts. You have to be a lawyer or teacher because I loved you put this into a Q & A Format :) Over all, excellent job:
    [​IMG]
     
  4. FloridaFC2MLS

    FloridaFC2MLS Member

    Oct 17, 2009
    Florida
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    For me....

    FWD: Wooten

    MID: Adu, Davis, Kljestan, Holden if healthy and on form (a little unlikely)

    DEF: Lichaj, Ream, Hines, Beitashour, Gonzo if healthy and on form

    I see Wooten doing best of our young strikers this next season so I peg him for being a new introduction. I never really thought the Adu thing was warranted because he's been ok for Philly but has started to get better & lets face it, we need his creativity. One of the things weve lacked is the x factor in the final third. Sometimes its as simple as taking these dreadful central american/caribbean fullbacks on instead of cutting back and passing simply (everyone besides Dempsey). As for Davis, this may surprise people but I will be livid if he does not get the next possible chance. 1, we need wide options and he's obviously alot more ready than the youngers options. 2, he has delivery that could change a game for us, easily. He's by far the most underrated player in our pool. Such a class player and should be playing in Europe. I know he's 30 but I dont think it matters. Hines is extremely important imo, I think Ream/Gonzo/Cameron/John & him should be brought in instead of Boca/Gooch/Goodson soon & see if they are good enough to replace them. I think Hines, certainly could be, & would probably be our best option if called. Finally, Beitashour would probably be called in January but if Lichaj backs up Fabian at LB & Chandler has Cherundolo behind him (who will be 35), Beitashour seems to be our next decent option. His delivery has been great for SJ & could really impress Jurgen with his style. This would be more incase C-Lo starts to go down hill.
     
  5. WondoSoWonderful

    May 3, 2012
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    I learned that playing with 3 CDMs isn't conducive to any type of attack
     
  6. joe cleats

    joe cleats Member

    Jun 17, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good analysis, most of which I agree with, Eleven Bravo.

    My biggest disagreement with your post is Chandler. Cherundolo is still serviceable and we have Lichaj on deck. It's a shame Lichaj wasn't called in, but he's still a part of this pool. If Cherundolo's form is truly dropping, Lichaj can take over for him there. We also have Gatt and Williams who can play right back as well. Chandler is a great option to have, but if he's not up to it, then we have options who are just as exciting (and potentially better).
     
    USAsoccer1 repped this.
  7. drgonzo

    drgonzo Member+

    Jun 1, 2011
    Club:
    San Diego Flash
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I learned that we have some really old players playing a vital role for the team.
     
  8. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Thing is, teams study their rivals. So a system often works nice the first time, or first few times, it's tried, because the rival was taken by surprise. They just didn't expect THAT team to play THAT way.

    After, they reform their analysis and make the necessary adjustment. A solid system is one that remains strong AFTER the other teams have adjusted themselves to it.
     
  9. minya

    minya Member

    Mar 27, 2008
    san diego, ca
    I learned that having JK as a coach made me appreciate Bob more.
     
  10. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    You'll appreciate him even more when, in the next FIFA Rankings, Egypt is above the USA --they only need to defeat the Central African Republic twice in the coming weeks, which is very likely.

    USA has 687 points, and won't get any more this month. Egypt is at 650, and with those wins, will get to around 700. Not bad at all for a country in the middle of a revolution, no?
     
  11. USAsoccer1

    USAsoccer1 Member

    Jul 15, 2011
    Sacramento
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I liked Bob but what you just said is crazy. I would have liked to see JK Head and Bob as an assistant in a perfect world. I know that would never happen but Klinsman is much better at the Bigger Picture and brought more talented athletes together.
     
    BimmerBenz95 repped this.
  12. BimmerBenz95

    BimmerBenz95 Member+

    Feb 24, 2012
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Smh...
     
  13. AutoPenalti

    AutoPenalti Am I famous yet?

    Sep 26, 2011
    Coconut Creek
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I learned that we learned that Klinsmann learned he can't have 5 CDM's with no attacking mids, with no wingers on his roster.
     
  14. WondoSoWonderful

    May 3, 2012
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    I learned that Klinsmann is less prepared for CONCACAF opponents than BB was
     
  15. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is also my sentiment. I wouldn't what to repeat what happened in 2006, when Reyna was past his prime but also recovering from injury, wait a minute?...Dammed! we did it again with GOOCH in 2010, oh -- never mind :-(
     
  16. Mr Martin

    Mr Martin Member+

    Jun 12, 2002
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Or shouldn't we at least wait until Summer officially begins on June 21? :D
     
  17. schrutebuck

    schrutebuck Member+

    Jul 26, 2007

    I agree. On paper, Klinsmann has a stronger team since the October 2009 injuries but he also has the oldest team since the 2006 World Cup. And actually, the side against Guatemala was a half a year older than the side against the Czechs in 06.

    Only 3 players younger than 29 started against Canada, Antigua and Guatemala. And Boyd against Scotland was the only U-23 starter of the entire "tournament", I guess that shows what Klinsmann currently thinks of the Olympic eligible players besides the unfit Altidore, the injured Williams and the flake Chandler.
     
  18. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Member+

    Real Madrid, DC United, anywhere Pulisic plays
    Aug 3, 2000
    Proxima Centauri
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How do we do a post-summer analysis when summer hasn't even started?
     
    asoc repped this.
  19. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Time travel.
     
  20. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    I just wanna mention on this whole take risks with new players like in 2002 thing, we often overlook the obvious. In 2001 and 2002 we had Donovan and Beasley fresh off impressive youth performances where they led a US team to one of their highest international finishes ever and were each singled out individually as a couple of the best players in that tournament. They were young, but they performed and rose to every challenge thrown their way. Right now, we have a series of youth failures and no youngsters that have truly distinguished themselves. This is a very different situation.

    Freddy has shown well at youth levels, although he is less impressive at each step up and struggles to make an MLS impact. Boyd got noticed in the U23s but his career isn't exactly at that high of a level and he's failed to find the net with some decent minutes where he's certainly had enough chances that you'd expect him to finish one off. Altidore is about the only young player we have shining at all for his club and his US scoring record is spotty.

    We're sticking with the same ol' same ol' because the cupboard is bare of fresh ingredients. Luckily, I am fully confident out old guard will be more than good enough to qualify, and I have my fingers crossed that a couple younger players rise to the challenge and win a spot over the next couple years. But as of now, what you see is what you get player wise. And it's not all bad news to have a team of accomplished vets who can do the job.
     
    Berks repped this.
  21. ScrappytheSeal4

    Jun 5, 2010
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is far too negative. Boyd and Atlidore are the only young kids we have that are doing well? Or is it just Altidore? I can't take that seriously. Nevermind the fact that only this past year did Altidore start producing at the club level the way everyone wanted him to. There's absolutely no reason to panic and act as if we're fresh out of options at the youth level like you seem to want to do.

    And you're a little late to complain about Adu's performance with the Union because he's been excellent his last few games.
     
  22. Berks

    Berks Member+

    Dec 22, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wonderful post.
     
  23. Berks

    Berks Member+

    Dec 22, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That post is accurate. The post is not doomsday, but it's accurate. And Adu needs to do more at the Union than string a few good games together. At the end of the season if his form continues, then we start to think of the possibilities.

    The post wasn't saying we have nothing. The post was saying hopefully by 2014 we will have discovered our new youngsters that have been consistent. I think we will.
     
    joe cleats repped this.
  24. Skippysasquirrel

    May 11, 2012
    San Diego, CA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A lot of people keep mentioning Lichaj, but I'm not really familiar with him (other than his stint with Aston Villa), any ideas as to why he keeps getting passed over by JK?
     
  25. kturk15

    kturk15 New Member

    Jan 3, 2012
    USA
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm awfully sure he's hurt right now, but should be ready for the next English season.(?)
     

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