Post Copa America 2016 "Retirement coupt"

Discussion in 'Argentina: Selecciones Nacionales' started by Loco, Jun 28, 2016.

  1. Loco

    Loco Member

    May 1, 2005
    Well, there is only one kind of movement, FORWARD.

    So let's do soul searching by yourself, and start discussing where does this leave us. Along with Messi, there are a bunch of other players that are threatening to retire; Messi, Sergio Aguero, Ezequiel Lavezzi, Angel Di Maria, Ever Banega, Lucas Biglia, Higuain and Mascherano.

    Since this is a very "unique" situation, I thought that it deserves its own thread. The following are the U-23 squad plus some other very good talent, where we will most likely have to assemble our starting 11 going forward. . . noone wants to do this, but we must. Let's start choosing our new "11" - feel free to add your own if not listed here

    GK Sergio Romero
    GK Augusto Batalla
    GK Gerónimo Rulli
    GK Ezequiel Unsain
    GK Axel Werner

    DF Víctor Cuesta
    DF Ramiro Funes Mori
    DF Lautaro Gianetti
    DF José Luis Gómez
    DF Jonathan Maidana
    DF Emanuel Mammana
    DF Mateo Musacchio
    DF Víctor Salazar
    DF Jonathan Silva
    DF Alexis Soto
    DF Leandro Vega

    MF Santiago Ascacibar
    MF Franco Cervi
    MF Joaquín Correa
    MF Matías Kranevitter
    MF Manuel Lanzini
    MF Giovani Lo Celso
    MF Mauricio Martínez
    MF Leandro Paredes
    MF Emiliano Rigoni
    MF Lucas Romero
    MF Iván Rossi
    MF Nicolás Gaitán
    MF Lucas Ocampos

    FW Martín Benítez
    FW Jonathan Calleri
    FW Ángel Correa
    FW Paulo Dybala
    FW Cristian Espinoza
    FW Mauro Icardi
    FW Cristian Pavón
    FW Giovanni Simeone
    FW Luciano Viett
    FW Eduardo Antonio "Toto" Salvio
    FW Guido Carrillo
     
  2. SupaMario

    SupaMario Member+

    Aug 31, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA Tigre
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    #2 SupaMario, Jun 28, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2016
    Take out Gio Simeone and put in Lucas Alario(At least he doesn't choke in big games like some other gallina...)

    But look.

    There is plenty of talent out there but who is scouting these players? Has anybody followed up on the likes of Bruno Zuculini, Jose Mauri, Cartabia, De Paul, and Joaquín Correa. Will the likes of Orban get a call? How about Tagliafico? Will Ansaldi finally be given a look? Who BTW was one of the best full backs in Italy last season(Who is on his way to Inter now). At least we have Pupi there who is gradually bringing in Argentinos to Inter.

    Some of these names have played at home and they are known but who is following up on them? The problem is that for the last 3 tournaments, how many new players have made the cut? Its been all the same faces, which in a way I am glad everybody is dropping like flies. We need new blood on the team.
     
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  3. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    For the better or worse, we do need the young blood. Messi generation has done all they could but sadly they're mentally not strong enough when facing formidable opponent and a final.
     
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  4. afar

    afar Member+

    Apr 26, 2007
    I am really looking forward to seeing Dybala and Icardi together.

    Is there anyone on the team who can be a true playmaker?

    We used to have many --- Riquelme, Aimar, Gallardo, Ortega...
     
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  5. Cariverplate246

    Jun 12, 2014
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    If we had a playmaker messi would be able to be a striker


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  6. SupaMario

    SupaMario Member+

    Aug 31, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA Tigre
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Lo Celso, he was recently purchased bought by PSG. He is a very talented player. Only 20 and will be on the Olympic team.

    It's a talented generation coming up, people should be pleased.
     
  7. SupaMario

    SupaMario Member+

    Aug 31, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA Tigre
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Playing Messi as a striker would not work. We have players like Calleri, Alario and Icardi who can play a traditional 9. Hell, Dybala has said he is a 9. He is just talented enough to create for his teammates and play a false 9.
     
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  8. Cariverplate246

    Jun 12, 2014
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    You think they will get rid of aguero lavezzi and higuain if messi comes back?
    I mean honestly i feel the team is pretty good defensively,. Compared to past teams we've had just think the attack needs finishers not chokers


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  9. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    This.

    The team conceided just once in last 3 finals. 360 minutes of play. The true problem lies within those chokers.

    I also think having Lavezzi and Gaitan upfront, they'll be more usefull because they dont play under similar preasure and fear like Pipita, Di Maria and Kun.
     
  10. SupaMario

    SupaMario Member+

    Aug 31, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA Tigre
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I think Pocho is basically done. He won't return even if Messi comes back. Messi and Kun have a close friendship so you never know about that. And Higuain, I don't think Higuain could ever show his face again in the shirt of the albiceleste. I just can't phantom him ever... ever wearing the shirt again.

    This is why I think it is good that these new players new players coming in at this time is so important. They will have enough time to prep themselves for Russia 2018. They have 12 more qualifiers to play. I think the emergence of Dybala, Icardi and whoever else will be incentive for Messi to come back. I really hope that we have a new manager and sets the team up with both Dybala and Icardi spearheading the attack. Because something tells me at the Olympics, Tata is going to use Dybala as a 9, so we won't have a Dybala and Icardi connection(That is if even Dybala gets to go and Icardi is even called) and this is something most of us want to see.
     
  11. Cariverplate246

    Jun 12, 2014
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Im excited to see the young players play the olympics now


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  12. Albiceleste2010

    Albiceleste2010 Member+

    Watford
    Argentina
    Jun 5, 2010
    Watford
    Club:
    Watford FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    The problem lies with the AFA.

    I mentioned this years ago and over the years. A lack of professionalism.

    The best coaches are never appointed to critical roles.
    Do they have access to the latest technological aids in analysis ?
    Do they have a team psychologist ?
    Where is the scouting network in Europe so that the national team manager can get regular updates on all possible candidates for the seleccion ?

    I doubt any of these exist which for a team the stature of Argentina is shocking. It's sad that in other team sports like volleyball, field hockey, rugby union and basketball the national teams are thriving on far less of a budget because they have far better adminstrators and people who care about the sport. Not lining their pockets.

    And as for these new players. Several of the old guard should go. But you need experienced heads in and around the team. Masche for one to guide the next generation of defensive midfielders like Krane and Ascacibar. Many of these kids look up to Leo as a hero and role model. What better motivation for them to play and improve if the result is that they get to play with him ?

    And I wonder about coaches and the scouts. Ansaldi has always been a very good fullback in defending and attacking in terms of his stamina. Tagliafico as well despite a blip in his career. Natural fullbacks seem to have been dispensed with and they are pretty useful for a Messi type player who thrives with Alba/Alves. At least Mercado gave it his all but Rojo is a liability a natural centre half shoe horned into his role.

    If they had a scouting network a player like Cuesta or the forgotten Gonzalo Rodriguez (another terrific season with the Viola) would have had more of a look in.

    This is a great opportunity if Macri can actually with the FIFA team get their hands dirty to totally reorganize the AFA. And get those who have turned the AFA into a mafia into jail.

    I don't want to see Lo Celso at PSG. Or returned for a short loan. If the AFA was properly run the clubs would have had more resources to prevent losing kids for a relative pittance and allow them to develop fully within Argentina. It would improve the domestic league, build deeper ties with the fans before they depart.

    At the moment it's about 50/50 if these players get the chance they need to play at this critical age of development. Many end up having their careers ruined. Look at de Paul, the Zuculini brothers to name just three. Or others who end up running off to China for the money or like Calleri are treated like cattle and hawked to entirely unsuitable clubs like Sao Paulo via some Uruguayan franchise FC.

    It's a shocking state of affairs. And despite it all the talent continues to emerge.
     
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  13. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Argentina has won many titles prior to 1994.... so its stupid to think that they'd need Messi and those chokers in order to win thropy.
     
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  14. Loco

    Loco Member

    May 1, 2005
    I don't fear Messi threatening to retire. The truth is that this is an early retirement - eventually he and all of them would have had to retire and we would've moved on. So this is happening a little bit early, but eventually it would've happen. So let this happen now, and let's look at the young guys
     
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  15. afar

    afar Member+

    Apr 26, 2007
    News reports saying AFA has approached Simeone for the NT coach position, and Atletico Madrid president said no.

    Not sure how true these reports are, because I don't even know there is someone at the AFA to even do the approaching.
     
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  16. Cariverplate246

    Jun 12, 2014
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Gallardo?


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  17. barcaq8

    barcaq8 Member

    Jul 14, 2014
    Camp Nou, Barcelona
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Guys who will coach Argentina NT next, any news?
     
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  18. Loco

    Loco Member

    May 1, 2005
    Well, this might be good news for you. But there is a rumor that an offer has been made (or at least serious interest) for Diego Siemone. However, Atletico president Enrique Cerezo had denied the rumors.

    Obviously, for most Argentinians, this would be our #1 option.

    When it comes to National Team soccer, I am of the school of Alexander The Great's quote "I am not afraid of an army of lions led by a sheep; I am afraid of an army of sheep led by a lion." - The Albiceleste has had plenty of talent in the last 25 years to win WCs, but we've been led by donkeys. Simeone is the manager that could change that.
     
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  19. atomicbloke

    atomicbloke Member+

    Dec 7, 2009
    Berkeley, CA
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    We need a phcuking striker. I have been saying this for the last 14 years but nobody phcuking listens, including folks on this forum. Ever since the Sweden game in the 2002 World Cup, I have been saying we need a phcuking striker, someone with an opportunistic nose for the goal, who can finish off half chances. But no one cares. Everyone is too happy with the "beautiful football", "tiki tika" bullshit which is useless without someone like Batigol, Crespo, Palermo, etc to put those phcuking half chances in. I can't believe we haven't developed one for the last 6-8 years? Who else do we have other than Pipita? Where is our Lewendoski, or Mueller, or Klose, or Huntelaar, or Kluivert?
     
  20. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    #20 Rattlehead, Jun 30, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2016
    You fckin nails it! People here can talk all day long how the manager fails ete etc, yet the problem lies within those chances which we never capitalize once! 4 finals in last 10 years , no goal scored!

    In last 3 finals, we have more clear chances than our opponents, many of them were a sitters which those guys can put it in with their eyes close if its a club game or it's not a final.

    If defence is the problem, we conceided just once in 360 minutes of those 3 finals! that was like near the very end of ET against very strong German side.

    I'd also pointed Klose as an example of someone that has never give up attitude. Losing 1 WC final , 2 WC semifinal, 1 Euro final before winning the WC at 36! In comparison, Messi only hit 30/31 by next WC.

    At the end of the day what we need is a player who can finish their chances against formidable opponent and in a final! I mean you look at Pipita chances in these 3 consecutive finals... how's it manager tactical fault that we lost those games? we should have been a World and South American champ before Centenario begin.. yet Pipita did the same stuff all over again to secure himself as greatest chokers of all time.

    The 90's era was harder to win because we're facing a more difficult opponents. The likes of Brazil, Holland, Italy and France were very strong... but these days we're losing to team like Chile in 2 finals! These Messi's generation, i doubt we can beat Haiti if they somehow made it to the final.
     
  21. RiverGaucho

    RiverGaucho Member+

    Jan 23, 2010
    Buenos Aires
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Gallardo is fine where he is
     
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  22. SupaMario

    SupaMario Member+

    Aug 31, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA Tigre
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Pretty sure Crespo was our #9 until 2007. As for Argentina, we do not call it tiki taka, we call it tiki tiki, that style was our staple in futbol, long before the gallegos decided to show up.

    As for "developing" a #9, I have stated we have PLENTY of young and talented #9's out there. The problem is they do not get called up. Icardi led the Serie A goals last season, yet he with omitted from the squad. He still finished in the top 3 leading goal scorers in the Serie A this season and played for a poor Inter side who gave him basically no support. You should asking why they likes of Icardi, Calleri, Alario and Dybala are not being called up not where our #9's have gone.

    Plus, lets not exactly hope for another Palermo, this is the same man who managed 3 PK misses in a single game.
     
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  23. barcaq8

    barcaq8 Member

    Jul 14, 2014
    Camp Nou, Barcelona
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Guys I cant recall a team with consistent talent that matches Argentina in the past 20 years approximately. It was always about management and the right person at the right place. What hurts the most is seeing other teams that play against Argentina with Argentine coaches! chile had saopaoli and the guys from this final I forgot his name.

    There is never a drought in Argentina in terms of talent, its always about management and utilizing that talent for the benefit of the NT. You were mentioning strikers, Dybala is a great player that most European teams are killing for
    A 9 that can also play as a winger, I hope he plays with the NT as soon as possible.

    Argentina deserves a title :)
     
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  24. atomicbloke

    atomicbloke Member+

    Dec 7, 2009
    Berkeley, CA
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    When I mentioned Palermo, I meant the international standard equivalent of Palermo. When he was with Boca, no matter how badly Boca was playing, how much they were being dominated, I could always count on Palermo to somehow pull a goal out of nowhere and give Boca a few undeserved wins. We desperately need someone clinical like that at the international level. Instead we have a situation where we create chance after chance but our strikers fluff them at the biggest stage. If we had someone like Batigol or Crespo in their prime, I would be more confident but the current cast inspires no confidence at all. For 2002, Batigol and Crespo were old / out of form and in the Sweden game we created chance after chance but couldn't hit the back of the net. This story has repeated itself for the last 14 years. It's inevitable that teams will play bunker ball against our tiki tiki style. That's why we need some clinical finishers who won't choke on the grand stage.

    I am aware of the potential of Icardi, Dybala and the likes. but they need to be given chances to develop on the international stage. For the last 2.5 cycles we have developed no one. Why does Pipita get called up for every game, qualifier and friendly? Why not use those games to develop other players? For the 2014 cycle, we had qualified with games in hand. Why didn't Sabella call other players to develop them? Why didn't Tata do that? We stick with the same cast and then when folks get hurt, or lose form, or just choke, we have no one to turn to. Why haven't we developed a good bench? Why haven't we blooded new strikers since 2010?
     
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  25. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Well, Real madrid Man City, PSG, Barca, Napoli can depend on Messi, Kun, Di Maria and Pipita to delivers the good... just like Palermo does for Boca.

    Messi countless strike in tournament final for Barca, Kun last second goal that win the league, Di Maria crazy run that setup RM winner few years ago... Pipita record breaking serie A golden boot.. even scored a bicycle in last match. None of these guys capable of putting the ball into the net when the NT play in the final.

    You have to rolled back to when Valdano, Burruchaga scored 30 years ago and more than 2 decades ago when Batigol scored 3 goals in back to back final. In 1995, Batigol was join Copa top scorer and could have win us 3 consecutive Copa if wasnt Brazil hand goal. That team didnt even have someone like Messi on it.
     

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