Yeah I had Salt Lake in mind, especially with the current format of getting into the playoffs that allows RSL to go into the east and have an easier path to the final.
Conversely: if Seattle wins again, Concacaf will bend over backwards to get them back in the CCL. I've lost count of how many times Chuck Blazer and co. have gone out of their way to compliment the Sounders and their fanbase. From another thread: This is way more on the mark than any of us would like to admit.
Which is exactly why we need a second tier tourney. Most USL teams don't need to be in the CONCACAF Champions League. If we want to be successful in these tourneys the best teams need to go. Let the lower tier teams play other teams in their "weight class" (so to speak). Another tourney would also give these clubs more opportunity to play intercontinental ball, thus raising their level of play. Continuing to allocate a slot to the USOC winner on the outside shot that MAYBE a USL-1 teams wins is wasteful. BTW, I just named the Superliga because it was the first "other" tourney that came to mind, but it doesn't have to be this format. I'd love to see a tourney that included mid table first division teams and lower tier clubs for leagues all over CONCACAF to spread the wealth.
Thats a good point, but it still doesn't take into account that "said" team's depth will be poached by expansion teams in the expansion draft each year for the foreseeable future. The MLS Cup playoffs really shouldn't have much bearing in all of this CCL talk as far as I'm concerned. I say bring the champ, but after that it's all about who's the hot hand at the right time. The League is a far better way to gauge a team's quality over a full season.
CCL can't draw, how would another tournament do? So no relegation/promotion and no US Open cup CCL spot, even if you create your second level concacaf tournament I am sure you would only want the mid table MLS to go and not give a chance to D-2. also USL teams have done better than MLS in the CCL. Maybe we should let them represent USSF in the tournament
Sure it does. It could very easily be expanded to a 16-team tournament with no prelims, or, to cut down on travel, a 12-team tournament with 4 groups of 3. Allocate bids like this for a 16-team tournament... Mexico - 2 USA - 2 Honduras - 2 CFU - 2 Panama - 2 Costa Rica - 1 Guatemala - 1 El Salvador - 1 Canada - 1 Nicaragua - 1 Belize - 1 Which guarantees either an American or Mexican team in each group, the countries that have produced the best attendance (sans Canada). Or, for the 12-team tourney... Mexico - 2 USA - 1 Honduras - 1 CFU - 1 Panama - 1 Costa Rica - 1 Guatemala - 1 El Salvador - 1 Canada - 1 Nicaragua - 1 Belize - 1 Setting a tournament up like this, and loosening the stadium requirements a bit for Belize and Nicaragua, would give every nation in CONCACAF a chance at international competition, and would provide a viable secondary tournament for the confederation. The 16-team tournament would have a total of 62 matches, assuming home-and-away throughout, and the 12-team tournament would have just 38, using the same assumption. Both are absolutely manageable for a second-tier tournament.
Dudes CCL does not make money, who is going to pay for the second tournament, how about we wait for CCL to become popular and maybe profitable, then we can worry about starting a second tournament.
It won't become popular or profitable in the states until we win or have good showings under this format. So You're talking about Montreal Impact and Puerto Rico Islanders back in 2008. Problem is, neither of these teams qualify via the USOC route. In fact neither of them are eligible to play for the USOC. Neither of them are a part of the USSF (in a CONCACAF sense). Also Montreal will be in MLS by 2012. Find me a D2 team capable of: #1- Winning the USOC #2 - Actually making the group stage of the CONCACAF Champions League I'd love to have them in, but they just aren't up to task at the moment. A 2nd tier tourney is the way to go for most of these teams. I believe the USSF agrees with me.
You are correct if a D-2 managed to win the US Cup (very small chance) then they will probably do badly in the CCL, but that is ok, they at least have that goal and hope, they can not make it to MLS (if no $$$) so let them play fore something in the US Cup, maybe they will take it seriously.
For anyone interested in lower-division US Soccer that hasn't already seen this, Inside Minnesota Soccer has published a copy of the US Soccer Federation's new standards for Division-II teams. I bring this up because of the specific clause under "II. Division II Men's Outdoor League --> Composition; Play --> ii". Mind you, this does not prove anything regarding the future of the US Open Cup; but considering that the US's other 3 spots are reserved for MLS teams, methinks the USSF wouldn't go out of its way to require that Division II teams show up for CONCACAF competitions if called upon, if they had no intention of allowing said teams to even get that far.
Islanders v Galaxy. I do think there needs to be a way for D-2 teams to make the CCL--and not just the ones playing in Canada or Caribbean... Frankly though, if the goal is to field the strongest MLS teams in CCL, then you should just go with the top 4 in league points. Teams can go on a great run of form for the playoffs and with the MLS cup--but the CCL is played out over 2 MLS seasons... You want teams with depth and consistency in results. Course, based on 2009, that would have put the Dynamo through... I know all qualifying cup competitions suffer from this sort of thing--where the team that plays is different from the one that qualified--but it seems like the salary cap, expansion, and roster size limits will make it tough for an MLS club to show consistently in CCL...
That's awesome. I'm glad to see this, because it means that the USOC will still be a CCL qualifier and that PDL teams will play in the CCL if they qualify. There was worry before that PDL teams would be unable to play because their rosters are made up of college students who have to go back to school in the fall. But now because of this mandate, they will get to enjoy the fruits of a USOC championship. Too bad this mandate didn't exist in Chaletenango's case.
Wow, interesting thought. It's only a matter of time before a PDL team makes a deep run in the US OPen Cup. However, I doubt they'll ever actually win it. If a PDL team did win the Open Cup, they'd probably get some MLS teams to loan them a bunch of under-23 year old players and make up the difference by signing up all the underacheiving 25-40 year olds who are playing in PDL for whatever vain reason. I don't see them flying in a bunch of college kids on a week night from all over the USA in order to play in a game every week.
On today's MLS Daily, Greg Lalas was talking about the benefits of winning the US Open Cup for Chivas USA. Besides getting their first-ever trophy [they played in the 2008-09 CCL thanks to getting a drop-me-down spot from the Revs], he argued, they could have a shot at Champions League ball if the Open Cup winners still gets in. So as far as Greg Lalas knows (or is willing to put on), the question is still in the air. Better than the straight "no" we were hearing from Bliss, though.
That's absolutely bush league. The teams have the right to know if it'll earn them a CCL berth or not. It affects motivation and lineup management. If the reason for the delay in deciding is because they want to avoid DC United representing the league, then that's just wrong.
To be fair, the other part of it is that we won't know how many spots the US in general will get until CONCACAF's October meeting. The "bush league" part still stands, though.
Well, that's still no excuse. A professional organization should always have a contingency plan. In other words, at this point, they should already have decided which champions get which berths in case the USA gets 4 berths. And what the plan would be if the allotment went down to 3 or 2. This is important to the approach that fans or players will take to the upcoming USOC games. IMO, a CCL berth makes a world of difference to the importance of the tournament. The 2011-2012 UEFA CL already has its berth allocations set in stone. All European teams know what they're fighting for this season (other than the league championship, of course). Kudos to the UEFA for doing things right.
Yeah, I have a feeling you are right. But why? Puerto Rico almost made the final two years ago and humiliated LA this year. Many of the D2 teams are easily as good as some of the Caribbean clubs, or teams from Nicaragua or Belize. Just put the USOC winner in the qualification bracket. If they make group, they've earned it. If not, no harm done. For me, if the USA loses a spot, just take: 1) MLS Cup Champ (direct to Group), 2) SS Champ (direct to Group), 3) USOC Champ (qualifying). No spots for coming in second unless someone does a double or treble, then take the team with the next best regular season record.
Still no official word, but a completely different vibe coming from Adrian Hanauer (GM, Seattle Sounders): Personal translation: CONCACAF is "highly, highly likely" to bend over backwards to get Seattle back in the CCL if the Sounders win the Open Cup.
Its good that US open isn't going to loose its qualification to the CCL. If it takes Seattle to save the US open cup then I'm glad Seattle came into the league and is trying to invest in cup tournaments as well. Its a shame CONCACAF is solely motivated by money even when I agree with them, but in this case more money and more competitive local tournament's went hand in hand.
As much as I appreciate the Sounders fandom and team, I had to FYP. Despite all the good math that's being done by a few different people to generate coefficients for the CONCACAF CCL, I think I'd be safe in betting that CONCACAF will put their thumb on the scales like FIFA does for seeding the World Cup.
Well, in all fairness, if you discount the 2008-09 debacle, teams from the United States have been the second-best in this tournament. My coefficients had the US as the 9th best nation in 2008-09 (out of 11, we beat Belize and Nicaragua, woo), #2 out of 9 in 2009-10, and currently #3 out of 9 this year. If Salt Lake beats Toronto in their match this Tuesday, the US is in very good shape to claim the #2 spot again this year. If Seattle hadn't been so lousy, we would definitely have a second-place finish wrapped up.