Possible Situations

Discussion in 'Referee' started by DaSweeper, May 3, 2003.

  1. DaSweeper

    DaSweeper New Member

    Oct 23, 2002
    What would happen in the following situation?

    A player flicks the ball into the air and grabs it with his shirt. He never actually touches the ball with his hands/arms. He proceeds to do whatever (run into the goal possibly). What would be the call?



    Also, in an indoor game I saw this happen. Time was running down in the game and a team was up by 1 goal. A player, against the boards, kneeled on the ball so that the other team could not get it. What is the call?
     
  2. wjarrettc

    wjarrettc Member
    Staff Member

    Oct 1, 2002
    Cliffs of Insanity
    Club:
    Carolina Railhawks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Foul. DFK to opponent. Yellow card for USB...

    In the opinion of this referee, this is handling because the player is using his hands to make a play on the ball (even though there isn't direct contact, the play could not be made without the use of hands). Further more, this warrants a yellow card for unsporting behavior because it is a deliberate attempt to circumvent the laws of the game. This is similar in spirt to a yellow card given for a player circumventing the laws on a backpass to the keeper on a throw-in, etc. under Law 12, IFAB decision 3.


    Foul for playing in a dangerous manner. By kneeling on the ball, the player deliberately puts himself in a position to be kicked (and probably deserves it!). The restart would be an IFK to opponent. I also might be inclined to book this player for USB if I felt it was deliberate (and it sounds like it from your description).


    Just my take on these two cases...

    Jarrett
     
  3. Statesman

    Statesman New Member

    Sep 16, 2001
    The name says it all
    Agree with wjarret except for one correction. Catching the ball in the shirt is indeed a caution for unsporting behavior but the restart is an IFK. This isn't actually handling even though it may make sense. Actually, Jim Allen has a question on his site right now about the "Oldest Trick in the Book" that answers exactly this situation. If you read Stanley Lover's writings he recounts a tale of when a few teams tried to use this trick back when soccer was first born but quickly was ruled unfair. First ever trickery tried in a soccer match? Maybe! I don't recall where the story was written :(
     
  4. Tame Lion

    Tame Lion New Member

    Oct 10, 2002
    Southern California
    The question on Jim Allen's site is a little different. It is a GK who caught the ball in his own PA and then tucked the ball. Misconduct occurs immediately before the GK could exit his PA and handling cannot be called.
     
  5. Statesman

    Statesman New Member

    Sep 16, 2001
    The name says it all
    This is not correct. JA's response states an IFK restart at the point where misconduct occurred. In other words, an IFK INSIDE THE PA where the goalkeeper first tucked the ball under his shirt.

    If this is a handling call then the restart would be a DFK at the position where the goalkeeper first left the PA. The correct call is stoppage for the administration of a card with the restart being an IFK at the point of misconduct.

    Any form of carrying the ball without the usage of the arms or hands is not handling, it is unsporting behavior. The position of the player does not matter.
     
  6. DaSweeper

    DaSweeper New Member

    Oct 23, 2002
    So stalling the ball on your foot and hopping/walking along with it is illegal?
     
  7. Statesman

    Statesman New Member

    Sep 16, 2001
    The name says it all
    Show me a player who can do so for any sustained period without having the ball taken away and I'll give you an answer. Let's at least attempt to be quasi-realistic...
     
  8. soccertim

    soccertim Member

    Mar 29, 2001
    Mass
    This is a little vague, but there was a player (South American, I believe) in WC98 who, when trapped by two defenders, would place the ball between his feet and hop (like a standing broad jump) to the other side of the players with the ball held between his ankles. Why wasn't this called? I saw the same player do it more than once in the game I was watching.
     
  9. steever

    steever Member

    Jan 14, 2002
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    I think that's Cuauhtemoc (sp?) Blanco of Mexico. Seen him do that several times.
     
  10. Statesman

    Statesman New Member

    Sep 16, 2001
    The name says it all
    If all he's doing is a single hop over a defender it's hardly anything worth calling. We're talking travelling down the pitch with the ball in tow. Think, people!
     
  11. Grizzlierbear

    Grizzlierbear New Member

    Jul 18, 2001
    canada no it is not
    Blanco's hop with the ball trapped between his legs is exactly what was discussed at the seminar with ESSE in Vancouver a few years back and at the EUFA confrence after the 98 world cup. Plus the video of it is used in the BC training videos "ANYTHING WRONG # 1 , 2 or 3 ?? to display exactly why it COULD be playing in a dangerous manner. The video clearly shows the trapping of the ball compressed between the legs as Blanco jumps between defenders. The defenders only avenue to play that ball is if they kick at Blanco. Statesman we did think about it. ;o)

    I did a tier one youth game between Mexico and a Canadian select team where the attacker while on the ground compressed the ball between his legs and then sommersaulted and backflipped upright as his opponents were standing about bewildered on how they could play the ball.
    Yes I did give an INDFK for playing in a dangerous manner. Although I told the youth it was immpressive and original, I explained with the ball in such a position those challanging would need to kick at you to play it..

    I saw a unique situation not too long ago where I witnessed the keeper after handling the ball for posession chose to place it back on the ground to prepare for a run out. THe only thing is he tripped over his own feet and fell on top of the ball By this time an opposing player is right there. The keeper was evidently aware not to use his hands and begin crabbing around in a circle triyng to shield the ball. His head was very tight to the ball and one arm each on either side of the ball. The attacker would be kicking at the keeper if he played the ball. The attacker was tring to hop over the body of the keeper to get tothe ball but did not kick at the ball.

    The referee was obviously convinced that the keeper was playing in a dangerous manner and awarded the INDFK. As a spectator watching it seemed a possible call but I asked after the match if the referee thought DOGSO was also in evidence?
    The criteria was there last man, 14 yards directly in front of goal, free kick offence designed soley to stop the opponent from getting off a shot.
    If the keeper had used his hands for a second touch that too would have been an INDFK.
    My question is would you as referee red card for DOGSO in either case? PIADM or second touch?
     
  12. Tame Lion

    Tame Lion New Member

    Oct 10, 2002
    Southern California
    For DP/PIADM you could call DOGSO. But remember that the attacking team did not create this scoring opportunity - it was a defender's error. So I think that everyone will accept that no card is fair.

    Jim Allen (official USSF) answered the DOGSO question for second touch direct off a restart a few months ago. The answer was NO! This is not a second touch direct off a restart so that might not be applicable. But this second touch is still a defender's error. So either way I think that no card is fair.
     
  13. Statesman

    Statesman New Member

    Sep 16, 2001
    The name says it all
    JA just posted today, actually, saying you cannot send off the keeper for DOGSO-H if he handles the ball within his own penalty area.

    If the keeper in your example did this outside of the area then the case could be made for DOGSO-H, though.

    RE: the bunny hop trick, I guess if USSF deems it dangerous then it must be called that way. I can see the rationale for that, although I wouldn't give a caution for USB (which doesn't appear to be the recommendation in that instance anyway).
     

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