Positives from today's game (R)

Discussion in 'New York Red Bulls' started by purojogo, Oct 25, 2003.

  1. No, I don't think anyone thinks it's a "grand scheme". Nor does anyone think that the Rev art tricked into believing that they can just have their way with the Metro. I think what Bradley did made sense. He rests his key players physically and mentally. They needed it. He avoided the risk of unnecessary injury to key players. He gave some probable substitutes more minutes, including Grafer.

    Home field advantage means little in this League and even less to the Metro this season. I bet that the rested players look more sharp on Saturday then we've seen them in a while.
     
  2. Matrim55

    Matrim55 Member+

    Aug 14, 2000
    Berkeley
    Club:
    Connecticut
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think Lisi's the best passer in the league by a long shot, and one of the best distributors over distance in the world. I wouldn't hesitate to build a team around him.

    However... he has stopped playing defense. Early in the season he did a good job at getting into the passing lanes and being a "disruptor" (rather than a destroyer, which he will never be). For the last two months, however, he's made just a passing attempt at playing defense. Partly I think this has to do with his ankle injury, which obviously hobbles him pre-game - he limps when he's warming up - and looks like it's limited his mobility overall. Partly, though, he just looks disinterested.

    It disappoints me as a fan of both the Metros and the national team. He's skilled enough to be a locked-in starter for both, but is a huge liability defensively. And Bradley being Bradley, that's why he's not an automatic first 11 player.

    If there's an expansion draft I'd expect him to be available. And given that he plays like a Mexican (skilled, graceful, lazy), I wouldn't be surprised if Chivas picks him up. I will miss him greatly, and I think Metro will as well.
     
  3. Allez_Zizou

    Allez_Zizou New Member

    May 24, 2002
    Metro Fan in Boston
     
  4. Simon Birch

    Simon Birch New Member

    Aug 4, 2003
    With McOwen's Monkey
    Re: Re: Positives from today's game (R)

    Reminds me of 2001, Mathis gets called away for a friendly with Ecuador, hurts himself, is never the same again....People on the boards lament Mathis playing in a meaningless match, getting hurt.

    Bradley avoided the situation by resting Mathis. This was a meaningless match. Away first, home first, we have two matches ahead of us to play and we need to perform well in either one. Its not a matter of who has home first or last, its about making sure all of our players are rested and ready. The reserves got valuable minutes and will be a little more sharp in practice now. The starters, many of whom played alot internationally this season of were bruised, are more rested.

    Quit your whining.

    And Richie, stop your inane postings about making every star player an assistant coach. Its tiremsome.
     
  5. Richie

    Richie Red Card

    May 6, 1999
    Brooklyn, NY, United
    Simon sez "And Richie, stop your inane postings about making every star player an assistant coach. Its tiremsome."

    Who asked you to read them?

    Richie
     
  6. Sccrlvr27

    Sccrlvr27 New Member

    Aug 1, 2003
    New Jersey
    Well, we finally found someone to take our pks...
     
  7. ElMetrofan

    ElMetrofan New Member

    Jan 20, 1999
    SHAPE, Belgium
    Well, i'm not too worried about our loss. Chicago lost 6-2 and they basically rested most of their starters. I'm glad Thortong let in 6 though. Keepers are small compared to keeping possesion and giveaways.
     
  8. Matrim55

    Matrim55 Member+

    Aug 14, 2000
    Berkeley
    Club:
    Connecticut
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ralston might be the best crosser in the league and the Metros might make him look like Figo, but when it comes to deep-lying distribution he's nowhere near as skilled as Lisi. He had the league's highest assists per minute on a team that didn't even score 40 goals. That should tell you something.

    That's a good question. I, however, am not as impressed by European scouts as you are.

    Better at playing the long pass, yes. Probably better at playing the early ball as well. In every other aspect of the game Reyna is a superior player.

    I've clearly seen more of a. The World Game, and b. Real Madrid than you, because I know that Beckham, rather than Zidane, is their deep-lying distributor, and that Beckham is the best in the world at that particular skill.

    Zidane is a pure #10, an attacking midfielder of myriad skills. Passing over distance is one of them, but hardly his outstanding attribute. If you watch more soccer you may come to understand that.

    Kenny's father had him in camp for Gold Cup 2002. The knocks were that 1) He didn't play defense, and 2) He wasn't competitive enough. Given that he was not going to unseat Reyna and/or O'Brien at that time with those deficiencies, it was a pretty easy call for Bruce.

    Bradley addressed all of this in a mini-feature in the NYT by Jack Bell earlier this year. Lisi hasn't improved upon the areas in which he was deficient, and I think that has pissed Bradley off.

    It's a shame, and I hope he doesn't waste his talent.
     
  9. Arisrules

    Arisrules Member

    Feb 19, 2000
    Washington, DC
    Spot on (including your thoughts on Beckham, he was morphed from pure wing player, to one who is excelling in a deeper central midfield position on a very talented team). Not sure if he is among the best in the world as you pose, but he is probably the best in the league right now. Problem as you say, is that he doesn't play defense. However, he had a lot of fire and bite in his play against the Revs yesterday. He was really helping out back in the midfield, and pushing it forward. I remember at least 3 or 4 times where he was able to come out with the ball from a scrum.

    If Lisi plays like that for the Metros in the playoffs, he will really help the Metros cause.
     
  10. Bigfoot

    Bigfoot New Member

    Yeah and one of the differences was Clint "you suck" Mathis going on a 5 game scoring streak enabling the Metro to accummulate almost a third of their league points early in the year and not have the collapse hurt them so badly
    I don't see how Walker was focusing on the playoffs sitting on the bench in NE and Clint "I'm not a focus guy" Mathis was probably shooting pool in his basement in North Paterson. We already know from the broadcast yesterday Jusko was focusing by watching the NE game on tv with his family. Maybe Magee was focusing by cleaning up the apartment he shares with Ricardo Clark anticipating a move in the next couple of weeks while Clark was on the bench yesterday in NE focusing on the playoffs.

    But you and I both know the fact of the matter is this: once the ball is kicked off anything can happen. There isn't a whole hell of a lot seperating the Metro from NE or even Chicago.

    Once they kick off this weekend let's hope things go the Metro's way.

    I'll be there cheering as I'm sure you will be too.

    Then the offseason will come and I'll point out how Amado "Pineda Chacon Ruiz" Guevara had one more goal in league play this year than La Blanc or whatever his name is and how Clint "you suck" Mathis led his team in goals scored for the first time in his career according to Elias Sports Bureau which means he's surrounded by one of the weakest teams since he's been a pro and that affects his assist total and we'll be at it again.
     
  11. Richie

    Richie Red Card

    May 6, 1999
    Brooklyn, NY, United
    You might be right about that. The best takers might not be the best over all players. You just have to be a starter so you are on the field to take them.

    Another reason why fitness is important so you stay on the field when, and if you have to take one.

    Also coach has to get out of the habit of making the fouled player take them. That is lower precentage then letting a designated taker take the pk.
    -------------
    Lisi has the potential to be a solid starter. He has weaknesses of not moving in the flow after the pass as much as he should, not taking on players when he should, and not shooting/scoring enough.

    Next year who knows some of those weaknesses may be gone. Then he has a chance to make the national team with his big talent distribution.
     
  12. Vistula

    Vistula New Member

    Jul 2, 2001
    Garfield
    Having a bad supporting cast did not hurt Amado or Lisi from being among the league's top assist men.

    Clint was the main reason for our fast start, you are correct about that. And I am thankful. But blaming the poor second half on Amado, because you want to twist Bob's quote ("We hope he'll have the impact of Ruiz or Pineda Chacon" into "he's going to lead the league in scoring" then go ahead. We can beat this to death, Bigfoot, but Mathis, positionally, is paid to score. Amado, positionally, is paid to be a playmaker. Both have had their good and bad streaks this season. For my money, Amado's shown better in the second half.

    Also, Mo Johnston stayed back with the team to train them this weekend. Of course, I'm sure that didn't keep Clint from his Bud and Bud Light on tap.
     
  13. Matrim55

    Matrim55 Member+

    Aug 14, 2000
    Berkeley
    Club:
    Connecticut
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In terms of playing the early ball over the top, 20 yards or more, there's a handful of guys in the world on par with him. He's among the best in the world at that. He's not among the best in the world at the position overall because he hasn't been playing defense, and because he's often lazy off the ball, as Richie pointed out.

    One of my great frustrations this year was when Lisi stopped moving forward after the San Jose game. Just because we know he's not going to score from the run of play doesn't mean they know he's not going to score from the run of play. He became one-dimensional, and that's hurt him.

    Yeah, but he was very much at fault on the first and fifth goals. He's a veteran and he was clearly the best Metro on the field yesterday - playing with three other rookies in the middle he should have been much more aware of his defensive responsiblities. Not tracking back - at times not hustling - is inexcusable. Especially when you're fighting for 1) a higher playoff seed, and 2) your starting job.

    Offensively, anyway. Defensively he's got to get the stick out of his ass or he's going to be watching for the first 70 minutes Saturday evening.

    The knock on Reyna before he went to Rangers was that he didn't play any defense and that he didn't show up in big moments. That all changed with some maturity. Lisi's only got one of those knocks - let's hope he's enough of a pro to realize it, and become Claudio Reyna Version2.0. I think he's talented enough.
     
  14. Richie

    Richie Red Card

    May 6, 1999
    Brooklyn, NY, United
    I think Reyna played defensive mid when he played in Germany. I thought he was a good ball winner 1 v 1 on defense.
    -------
    Do you see him with Manchester City? He does not even move to a ball when they are on attack. He waits until a team mate moves to him with the ball.

    He plays the way good players play when they get old. When he get's the ball he is a good distribtor but mostly east and west passes so he is good for reversing the field.

    -------

    I think he will probably make it to Germany even though he should not. If he does make it to Germany in 2006 he will be at best a short time last 20 minutes substitution player.
     
  15. Matrim55

    Matrim55 Member+

    Aug 14, 2000
    Berkeley
    Club:
    Connecticut
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He played inside-right attacking mid with Wolfsburg. Chad Deering was one of about 4 defensive midfielders in the rotation who played behind Reyna and the other attacking mid, a Czech whose name escapes me.

    I didn't see the game this weekend, but I did see him against Bolton, Fulham, and the midweek UEFA game. He didn't have any problems with his movement or attacking then. It's best to remember that he's coming off a long injury and was playing his third game of the week Saturday, so he may have been gassed. Also, from what I've read he was hardly the only MCFC player who was sub-par.

    [qutoe]I think he will probably make it to Germany even though he should not. If he does make it to Germany in 2006 he will be at best a short time last 20 minutes substitution player. [/QUOTE]
    That's too far down the road to really speculate. I'm more concerned about WCQ next year and the year after. Reyna will without question be a key contributor, and I think if Lisi gets his act together, he could be the number one reserve for the "Reyna" role.
     
  16. Soccer C

    Soccer C New Member

    May 6, 2001
    NY
    Thornton went out after the 1st half when they were winning 2-0. The backup let in 6 all on his own.

    I hope Ray was watching that game - all he has to do now is unleash the Diva (or Stoichkov - either one will do the trick) on Big Zach and that series is in the bag for DC.

    Back to the topic, the main positive is that the game is now over. On to the playoffs.
     
  17. Inked AG

    Inked AG New Member

    Jun 17, 2003
    Queens
    How's this for a positive:
    We forfeit the next two games to save us from further embarrassment.
     
  18. Brownswan

    Brownswan New Member

    Jun 30, 1999
    Port St. Lucie, FL
    Number 1 or number 2?

    Beasley was on the bench when he took one -- famously -- for all the world to see.

    When a guy's gota go a guy's gotta go. That's why FIFA made the pitch so big.

    -- or am I missing something here?
     
  19. sweeper5

    sweeper5 New Member

    Jan 4, 2003
    The biggest positive was probably in the ability of the team to score some goals and create other chances against the NE A-team. But also a lot of problems:

    The back four was very soft and often dropped too deep into the box on defense instead of moving out higher to put more pressure on the ball and squeeze space in the midfield.

    On offense, too many mindless 50/50 serves into the box to nobody, especially the flank players Zaidie and Edgar who were two of the more experienced players on the field. They gave the ball to the other team almost every time they touched it and really killed the attack. The wide players get trapped too much and get locked into playing down one side, and force balls forward with too many dumb serves to nobody, like high school ball. Edgar and Zaide were also a liability on defense. Zaide especially shows no passion on the field and doesn't seem to care if the team wins or loses.

    Lack of patience, composure and vision on offense. Too many players force balls forward when nothing is on rather than playing back or square and waiting for something to develop.
     
  20. Arisrules

    Arisrules Member

    Feb 19, 2000
    Washington, DC
    I think if he plays as the second offensive midfielder we will be fine. You are right on this defensive flops, but he was very involved in the attacking third against the Revs starting defense (w/o heaps, but leonard is probably better, heaps is horrendous). The fact that he made attempts on the defensive side of the ball was encouraging though. I think if he plays with intensity and passion he can be the difference maker.
     
  21. Matrim55

    Matrim55 Member+

    Aug 14, 2000
    Berkeley
    Club:
    Connecticut
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, we've got our answer: HEADING FOR THE KNIFE: Mark Lisi, who finished second in assists (with 11, to Kansas City midfielder Preki's 17), said he will have postseason surgery to repair a torn tendon in his left ankle. "The ankle's bothering me," he said. "We don't have much time left. I'm going to suck it up and push through it."

    Courtesy of the Daily News. Glad to know there's a reason for his drop in work-rate. I'm going to assume, given that he's playing, it's either a) not a major tendon, or b) not completely torn.

    I hope it's a 6-8 week thing, and that he's invited into the national team camp for January. IMHO, he's earned it.
     
  22. ElMetrofan

    ElMetrofan New Member

    Jan 20, 1999
    SHAPE, Belgium
    Oh... haha that's too funny. How do you break his ankles
     

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