Portuguese Symbols

Discussion in 'Portugal: NSR' started by Cilindro, Dec 22, 2005.

  1. vilafria

    vilafria Member+

    Jun 2, 2005
    Let's not confuse cities with populated areas, a group of houses doesn't make it a city.
     
  2. gAmA

    gAmA New Member

    Jan 17, 2006
    Porto
    Agree. They were more like "castros", with circular stone houses, situated mainly on dominant high territories without focusing on commerce but most of all in defending it's geographical perimeter.
     
  3. FCPorto_Dragao

    Jun 15, 2005
    E DUBs
    Club:
    FC Porto
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    just to prove I was right

    [​IMG]

    Guimaraes was in the the province of Tarraconensis (Taragona) as Lusitania is south of the Rio Douro.
     
  4. gAmA

    gAmA New Member

    Jan 17, 2006
    Porto
    What a shocker:eek:
     
  5. Briosa a frente

    Briosa a frente New Member

    Sep 3, 2004
    Winnipeg, (Coimbra)
    Would you then not have to prove that Atlantis was an actual place Portugallia? Not that I don't believe it. but
     
  6. Cilindro

    Cilindro New Member

    May 24, 2002
    I think the most common place refered to the localization of Atlantis is the Azores.
     
  7. Portugallia

    Portugallia BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Dec 9, 2005
    You'll find that Lusitania went all the way up north to the ocean, not just south of the Rio Douro.

    You're right to an extent FCPorto_Dragao because the map you've shown is the popular 3rd century Roman description of Lusitania's borders which is the prefered interpretation of our ancient borders by the Spanish and anti-Portuguese media but if you go further back (150 years), texts tell us a very different story. Texts tell us the Lusitanian territory extended all the way north to the Cantabrian mountains, Galicia and the ocean.

    Here are a few extracts that describe Lusitania's borders in 25 A.D.

    Strabo, Geography 3.2.9
    "But among the Artabrians, who live farthest on the north-west of Lusitania"

    Here Strabo lists the Artabrians as a people who dwell in Lusitania. The Artabrians live further north than the Douro river in what is now Galicia.

    Strabo, Geography 3.3.4
    "Now the length of Lusitania to Cape Nerium is three thousand stadia"

    Here again we see that Cape Nerium, which is the north western corner of the peninsula, is included as part of Lusitania. Once again the borders of Lusitania is shown to extend past the Douro river.

    Strabo, Geography 3.3.5
    "Last of all come the Artabrians, who live in the neighbourhood of the cape called Nerium, which is the end of both the western and northern side of the Iberian peninsula."

    In describing peoples of Lusitania, Strabo once again identifies the Artabrians as a Lusitanian people who live in the extreme north of the peninsula in what is modern day Galicia and therefore further north than the Rio Douro.

    Strabo, Geography, 3.3.2
    "And yet the country north of the Tagus, Lusitania, is the greatest of the Iberian nations, and is the nation against which the Romans waged war for the longest times. The boundaries of this country are: on the southern side, the Tagus; on the western and northern side, the ocean; and on the eastern, the countries of the Carpetanians, Vettonians, Vaccaeans and Gallaicans, the well known tribes; it is not worthwhile to name the rest because of their smallness or lack of repute. Contrary to the men of today however, some call all these people Lusitanians."

    From the above passage it's once again made clear that in and abouts 25 A.D the borders of Lusitania to the north was the ocean. Interestingly enough it's also recorded that the Carpetanians, Vettonians, Vaccaeans and Gallaicans were once all called Lusitanians.

    In any case, it's very well documented that the northern borders of Lusitania once reached all the way up to the ocean where by Guimaraes would naturally have to be included.
     
  8. Portugallia

    Portugallia BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Dec 9, 2005
    All we can do is read what was written about the Atlantean kingdom and ascertain from there its historical accuracy. Here are a few extracts from Plato's Timaeus and Critias which describes the kingdom of Atlantis.

    "We must remind ourselves that in all nine thousand years have elapsed since the declaration of war between those who lived outside and all those who lived inside the Pillars of Heracles [Straights of Gibraltar]."

    The only territory outside the Pillars of Hercules is western Spain and Portugal or in other words ancient Lusitania.

    "The Eldest, the King, he gave a name from which the whole island and surrounding ocean to their designation of 'Atlantic' deriving it from Atlas, the first King. His twin, to whom was allocated the furthest part of the island towards the pillars of Heracules and facing the district now called Gadira[Cadiz]."

    This extract is interesting because it limits the furthest part of the Atlantean nation as the district of Cadiz. That is, the most eastern border is Cadiz and therefore everything west of Cadiz is part of the central Atlantean kingdom. This second extract reinforces the first extract where Plato describes the Atlanteans as the people living outside the Pillars of Heracules.

    "They and their descendents for many generations governed their own territories and many other islands in the ocean and as has already been said, also controlled the populations this side of the straights as far as Egypt and Tyrrhenia[Italy]."

    This text indicates the primary Atlantean territory as being inside the Straights of Gibraltor, therefore western Spain and Portugal, while at the same time indicating secondary territories which the Atlanteans had control over and governed, namely all territories east till Italy and Egypt.

    Plato's text mentions much about the Atlantean land that sounds exactly like Portugal but of course only true Portuguese who know their homeland well would be able to make the connection.

    Here's an extract describing an ancient Atlantean tradition practised by the kings of Atlantis.

    "There were in the temple of Poseidon bulls roaming at large. The ten kings after praying to the God that they might secure a sacrifice that would please him, entered alone and started a hunt for a bull, using clubs and nooses."

    This ancient tradition is very similar to our Portuguese forcados where a group of men also enter into a ring and hunt down a bull.
     
  9. vilafria

    vilafria Member+

    Jun 2, 2005
    To call all peoples Lusitanians is no different than calling all peoples Iberians or Celtiberians, it does not amount to anything concrete. The passages that you presented as evidence are weak and even contradictory , and ,at the very least, subjective.
     
  10. Portugallia

    Portugallia BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Dec 9, 2005
    That's true but it's not entirely correct. The Azores most likey belonged to the Atlantean kingdom as the Atlanteans controlled many islands in the ocean but it's not the central kingdom that the texts refer to.

    You see in ancient times the Pillars of Heracules, modern Straights of Gibraltor, were considered the extreme point of the continental land mass in the west.

    Any land beyond these pillars was believed to be an island. Hence because western Spain and Portugal, that is Lusitania, lied beyond the pillars this land bulging out from the pillars was considered to be an island by the ancients.

    This misconception of Lusitania being an island was prevelant till around 500 A.D.
     
  11. vilafria

    vilafria Member+

    Jun 2, 2005
    If I was to consider the lands beyond Gilbraltar, then I would include Northwestern Marroco and Southwestern Iberian coast in my list.

    But more important is that speculations regarding Atlantis or even a Greater Lusitania have nothing to do with Portuguese symbols.
     
  12. FCPorto_Dragao

    Jun 15, 2005
    E DUBs
    Club:
    FC Porto
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    portugalia...why are you the only one that is withheld to this supposed evidence? why is everyone else in the world in the dark? wll you show us the true path?!?!? come on...all maps that I have seen have Taragona aka Tarraconensis extending to northern Portugal...get with it dude.
     
  13. jec1

    jec1 Member

    Sporting Clube de Portugal
    Portugal
    Aug 27, 2004
    Los Angeles ATM
    Club:
    Sporting CP Lisbon
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    He is a so called historian he is trying to manipulate information.
     
  14. vilafria

    vilafria Member+

    Jun 2, 2005
    :) That's a politician.
     
  15. jec1

    jec1 Member

    Sporting Clube de Portugal
    Portugal
    Aug 27, 2004
    Los Angeles ATM
    Club:
    Sporting CP Lisbon
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    I got no respect for these hypocrites who lie and cheat and steal from us.

    Btw people in canada vote for the young kats VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE:)

    Your vote counts:D
     
  16. vilafria

    vilafria Member+

    Jun 2, 2005
    You're all peped up, what's up , too much coffee tonite?:)
     
  17. vilafria

    vilafria Member+

    Jun 2, 2005
  18. jec1

    jec1 Member

    Sporting Clube de Portugal
    Portugal
    Aug 27, 2004
    Los Angeles ATM
    Club:
    Sporting CP Lisbon
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    It's almost midnight and I don't work tommorow but im a passionate guy.

    Btw way our election is held on Monday so please vote if your a canadian citizen or even an american smuggling into the country.
     
  19. vilafria

    vilafria Member+

    Jun 2, 2005
    [​IMG]

    Douro River's wine boat
     
  20. Portugallia

    Portugallia BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Dec 9, 2005
  21. vilafria

    vilafria Member+

    Jun 2, 2005
    ???
     
  22. jec1

    jec1 Member

    Sporting Clube de Portugal
    Portugal
    Aug 27, 2004
    Los Angeles ATM
    Club:
    Sporting CP Lisbon
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    Is that a cookie?:p
     
  23. vilafria

    vilafria Member+

    Jun 2, 2005
  24. FCPorto_Dragao

    Jun 15, 2005
    E DUBs
    Club:
    FC Porto
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    Portuguese Carrack I believe...first to incoporate two different types of sails (square and triangle) on a Caravel...yup, that's us alright...here's a pic of our Carrack http://www.geocities.com/captcutlass/ship/carrack.jpg
     
  25. vilafria

    vilafria Member+

    Jun 2, 2005
    [​IMG]

    3 masts vs 2 masts ?
     

Share This Page