It´s the TGV (Train à Grande Vitesse). It´s going to connect Porto to Lisbon and Lisbon to Madrid. Connections from Porto to Vigo and Aveiro to Salamanca are also planned (but have been delayed). There´s a lot of discussion in Portugal about that project (it´s going to cost thousands of millions of euros).
I agree. What I don´t agree is to delay the connections from Porto to Vigo and from Aveiro to Salamanca. Once again some politicians think that Lisbon is Portugal...
Does anybody know if the existing trains are very profitable? Most countries have experience that shows that passenger rail rarely ever can function without government subsidies.
I dont really think there is a need for it. Porto and Lisboa are only a coule hours apart. I agree with a connection between Lisboa and Madria, that makes the most sense.
I think its a wortless investment.I was listening to the news 2 days ago,and the Person in charge of CP(COMBOIOS DE PORTUGAL)said that the difference in travel time is minimal...It will take 20 minutes less to connect Lisbon to Porto,but it will cost 7 million Euros more....Now if anyone thinks that 20 minutes travel time is worth 7 million Euros ,all i can say is God Bless them..... Another white Elephant....The new Ota Airport and the TGV...... Fcvk new Hospitals,fcvk cutting down on the waiting list for Surgerys,forgot about buying new material for our Police forces to cut down on crime.Forgot about investing in better and more efficient ways to Prevent and fight forest fires...Forget about cleaning up ,bad sections (Bairros)in Amadora,Lisboa,Porto,and build houses for the Less fortunate...Lets forget about investing in agriculture.Fishing.Making Porugal an attractive country for foreign cOMPANIES TO OPEN UP FACTORIES...... Its all cosmetics,,,What good is having a TGV between Lisbon and Porto ,when our government is doing very little about companies closing up daily and transferring their operations into Romania,Bulgaria,Slovakia>? What good will a new Airport do ,50 km from the Capital?.......I swear our Politicians learned very little over the past 30 years.......
I agree on all of the issues you bring up. Ota is a waste when Portela in peak season is only used to something like 15% capacity. The hospitals, crime, and every everything else your right on. The TGV train to Madrid to say it will only cut 20 min is misleading it will be more like 2 or more hours. This will only increase the Spaniard investment in Portugal which is already at a all time high. If there is money to spend it should be to benefit our infrastrucure. Soon we'll even loose our language.
Where did you read that Portela in the peak season is used in the 15% capacity? That is a complete lie. Portela is now close to it´s limits... I think that Ota may not be the best solution, but a new airport in Lisbon is necessary, even for safety reasons (the day a plane crashes in a landing maneuver, killing thousands of people, I wonder what the detractors of a new airport will say). Today a trip from Lisbon to Madrid takes between 8 to 10 hours (I have made that horrible trip several times) and with the TGV it will take 3 hours. I am suspicious about this projects, but to say that they are not worth because we should use that money to build hospitals and houses (like we don´t give enough free houses to people that deserved to be in jail) is just demagogy. We have to think ahead and in future benefits.
The airport capacity issue I read it in a PT paper. Simple example I go to Portugal every year. One time I had to go back a few hours later to the rental car agency because of a problem 11 AM (this was peak season Euro, summer tourists etc.) their wasn't a soul in the airport, I parked were i felt like, and no taxis at the waiting area. But I'm not against the TGV, I just think that we have bigger issues to tackle, being it health care, poverty, youth education etc.. I did say that it wouldn't be a 20 min change, but 2 or more hours.
The airport capacity issue that you read is complete bull********** (was it in Avante?). Even the the people against the Ota project (and I really don´t know if I am one of them) recognize that Portela is in it´s limits and think that we should use nearby airports for some of the traffic (low-costs for example). About the TGV, it is neither a 20 minute nor a 2 hour difference, it´s 1/3 of the time (6 hours less). PS: If the Portela capacity was enough even in the Euro, I wonder why they had to use other nearby airports during that time.
The 20 minute time frame i was referring too wasnt between Lisbon-Madrid,but between Lisbon-Porto,im only commenting on what i say on the news from The CP ,chairman...... As far as Lisbon Aiport being in its limits ,i have to disagree....During the busiest Year ever on flight activity to Portugal (Euro 2004)the Portuguese airports handled the flt activity extremely well with its current facilities.....As far as low cost carriers ,if there was ever a need ,lets not forget that we have Figo Maduro,you build an decent passanger terminal and your problems are solved...The safety of the AIPORT (LANDING MANEUVERS LIKE YOU MENTIONED )is nothing but propaganda ,on the people that want to build Ota ,as an Airline employee ,and with quite a bit of travel experience.I must say that Lisbon Airport is not a danger to the surrounding population ,during landings and take-offs....The old Kai -Tak airport in Hong Kong was,La Guardia in Nyc is.Dulles in Washington Dc is....Theran is ,La Paz Bolivia and the list goes on....... Infrastructures are important ,but i feel ,that the country has at the moment for the industry that we have more than enough infrastructures....When was the last time we built a state of the art Hospital?Somone here said "why build houses for people that should be in jail?"Ill tell you why ,some people need a little push ,and if you descriminate these people by helping them live in a decent house ,the need for crime will diminish.... At the rate that were going in not promoting new business developments (being a good country for foreign companies to base themselves and invest there)We will soon be at the very tail end of the EC....I visited Prague last year and i must say that their making very good use of the Ec funds.....Czeck Rep ,in 10 years will be a very prosperous country.We have been in the EC since the 1980s and have not made the best use of their funds......We lay at the tail of Europe side by side with Greece.......
That is the option the people against the Ota airport propose. Sooner or later Portela will reach it´s limits.
So, if we don´t give some people free houses it will be discrimination. I pay my taxes and I am a responsible citizen (unlike a lot of those people) but if want a house I will have to pay it with a significant portion of my paycheck for the next 20 years. Talk about discrimination... Ps: I don´t think that the drug dealers and thugs that live in social neighbors all around Portugal stoped their activities because we gave them free, low-rent houses.
http://sic.sapo.pt/online/noticias/vida/20051213-Tres+hospitais+em+Lisboa+podem+fechar.htm The hospital that serves me, Pedro Hispano, for example is only a couple of years old. The Santo Antonio hospital in Porto has been remodeled and expanded just a few years ago. I am not saying that we shouldnt apply more money in health care, but things are far from being as worse as most people think.
Whos fault is it that we have Bairros sociais?In my eyes the government....After the colonial wars ,our government opened the doors to all the Retornados ,without a planroper housing,proper education,or training these people to become good citizens and to be an asset to the Portuguese society,instead they sent the boats over, loaded them up,and once in Portugal...They said "There you "Cova Da Moura,Amadora,Linha de Sintra,etc,etc..... We are now paying for the social problems/crime that our government did back in the 70s..... Anothet thing that worries me ,is all the textile and shoe factories closing up in our country.....Also another thing that worries me,is the fact that were not marketing our typical Portuguese products well enough overseas....Things have gotten a lot better....But why did it take so long for us to advertise our Wines,Olive Oil,Cork industry........... Just some toughts from a very patriotic guy,and someones that only wants to see our country move ahead..... On a side note is it true ,that our government is planning on building a 3rd bridge over the Tagus River?
Most of the people living in social neighborhoods today aren´t retornados. The government had no option but to open the doors to the retornados (I think you are confusing retornados with african immigrants) after the shameful descolonization process. Those people had to run for their lives from Africa. They were portuguese colonists. What was your ideia? Leave them in Africa to get slaughtered by the africans. We are paying for laxism. Those people know how to bend the government in their favour. If we took back the houses from people with criminal offenses and people that can pay for a house (but don´t) we would have plenty of free houses... PS: the retornados (portuguese colonists) had superior education than the portuguese from the metropolis.
I may have used the term Retornados unnapropriately ....Your correct ,i meant to say Poople from the colonies non-Portuguese citizens...But isnt the term Retornados also meaning non Portuguese citizens from the colonies? EX-A Cape Verdean passport in the 70s didnt say Republica de Cabo Verde ,it said Provincia de Cabo Verde....So theres defenately a loop hole in the term as far as im concerned..... Now we are doing the same mistake but instead of Africans were doing it with Ukranians ,citizens of Moldavia ,Romanians......When i mean the same mistake i refer to our Government not taking advantage of some highly educated and qualified people from the EX-Soviet countries....Drs,Nurses,Engineers...... Im still a beliver than in order for immigrants to have a succesfull integration into ones society ,you must be able to provide with some tools.... And im my opion we didnt.........
The word retornado applies to the ethnic portuguese colonists. The african immigrants came later. I agree that we should take advantage of the qualified people from eastern Europe. We are beginnig to do that (the problem is the lobbies) but slowly as usual.