Apparently you engineers aren't so great at reading comprehension. I never said this asinine and pointless debate appears exclusively in threads about PGE Park. I said it always appears in threads about PGE Park. I don't give a rat's ass what other threads you pollute with your stupid drivel -- just keep it out of threads relating to my team and my stadium, asshat. Really? Why? Why is this your personal quixotic crusade? I mean, why not throw your considerable talents at something more noble and worthwhile, like eradicating underage monkey porn? Why have you chosen to devote countless hours and keystrokes to this mission of all things?
Correcting error and misinformation is never pointless. And I'm not an engineer. You know Scoey, you've always been one of the level headed people around here. Perhaps you could help guide that discussion in such threads by asking people to actually comment on the things the stadium can actually do or the design of the stadium, rather than discuss fantasy or alternate realities. God does it make me feel dirty to defend FC Dallas from time to time, but for Pete's sake, someone has to use facts from time to time in how these things get built. I guess because I don't have Brian McBride to kick around anymore...
Sweet jesus -- on Bigsoccer it is. Sometimes you just gotta let it go. I thought you were. Architect? It is my level headedness that causes me to be so baffled and annoyed at you. I just don't understand why this is such a mission for you. I've been posting on Bigsoccer for over eleven years, and you are the first person I've ever directly insulted. Congratulations? I'm sure I crossed the line and do appreciate your restrained response, though. But I disagree with you - I do think a roof adds to the atmosphere in the stadium. I defend them regularly. I feel your pain. But we'll always have this: http://www.kickette.com/images/uploads/brianmc.jpg
You already won the argument. Everything Mr. Warmth has said is pure semantics, which in high school debate would have gotten him an A, but doesn't change the fact that roofs on stadiums do actually enhance the volume of the crowd noise as PERCEIVED by the spectator under the roof. That's all that matters.
Do the materials of the roof matter? The existing stands of PGE Park are 80-90% covered by a wooden roof with wooden support structures. It's really quite beautiful and something you would never see today. Can you imagine the cost of putting that much old growth timber in a stadium today? PGE Park also sits primarily below grade by at least a couple story's. When you combine that with the roof noise just seems to stay in that place. It will be the loudest stadium acoustically wise in MLS next year I believe because of the roof and below grade nature of the stadium. The new east side roof will be a man made membrane of some sort.
You know me brother. That can't happen. Architect & Regional/City Planner I think you may be the only person I haven't directly insulted. Please define for me how it does that for you. I'll likely agree as long as you don't tell some fairy tale about how it makes it seem like there are X more people there than there really is. There is only one thing short of electronic amplification that makes a stadium measurably louder, and that's more people, particularly those who don't sit on their hands. Support group meets on Fridays. Not by a long shot. You keep using that word "enhance", and it doesn't mean what you think it does. I believe it is you who are running some sort of cap & trade with semantics, rather than facts. Acoustical measurement equipment doesn't lie. But my work here is largely done since I now have you cowards all admitting that it's a perception of increased sound of rather than an actual measurable increase in most, if not all cases. Now that you gutless punks can all admit that, you can start to put a dollar value that you think an owner should add to the cost of a stadium to make you happy, as opposed to, you know, spending it on the team, or adding more seats which really does increase the volume, especially if they're not a bunch of clowns there just to do some performance chants. Why yes the do, very much so, as well as the shape of the roof and any minor corrugations that you typically find on the bottom of steel deck structures. Wood, being a relatively soft material is going to dampen more sound that say a nice hard concrete shell or a smooth, rigidly attached steel panel. This dampening will increase depending on the changing moisture content of the wood during different parts of the season. No, they can't imagine it. To replicate it today would probably cost more than RedBull Park would. The fact that the stadium is 20+ feet below grade with concrete walls does the majority of that work for you (hard, dense material) combined with the lack of any vibration that you would get from a steel panel roof/deck. What the roof does do in this situation is prevent the force of the wind from dissipating the sound energy faster than it would if there was no roof. The wood roof is pretty bad for sound reflection due to wood's soft nature. And will reflect about as much sound as a nylon tarp.
excited for you guys to be playing right downtown. part of me will miss the awayday skytrain rides to burnaby though is it wrong for me to like how the stadium looks with the roof off? it kind of reminds me of a serie a stadium sans roof.
That's a cool picture, but it reinforces my opinion that the new stands/roof detract from the aesthetics of perfect PGE. Just looks choppy. That said, I'd still rather have our stadium than any other in MLS.
Or, one could say it gives the stadium a quirky, unique character, not the same cookie-cutter sss look.
Did the definition of "cookie-cutter" change while I was reviewing fire extinguisher submittals earlier?
Ok, perhaps cookie-cutter is not the most apt definition, but, there is a certain degree of sameness regarding the current crop of SSS's. I am not saying that is a bad thing, all these stadiums are terrific venues. Portland's stadium of course does not fit that mold.
You gringos are crazy... Just take a moment and think... It's a stadium of which the owners just kicked baseball to the curb.... in favor of soccer....in the United States.... have a moment and let it sink in... Who cares how "cookie cutter" it looks or doesn't look...
Man always grasps for what's out of his reach. That's a nice way of saying, get a clue you clowns. Grasping for more isn't bad (well, it can be if you know why our economy is in the crapper), but then there is stuff like this. Soccer replaced baseball in this town. During negotiations the Portland Trailblazers tried to sabotage the Timbers.....and it's still getting done. Talk about impressive. Talk about a lack of perspective and understanding of just what it all means. As I have always said - Any stadium built for soccer in this country is a major victory. ANY.
I am quite familiar with the history of the stadium. I was just pointing out that the lesser symmetry of Portland's stadium compared to the newer sss's gives it its own unique character.