Poor Taylor :(

Discussion in 'New England Revolution' started by I PINCH!, May 2, 2006.

  1. firstshirt

    firstshirt Member+

    Bayern München
    United States
    Mar 1, 2000
    Ellington, CT / NK, RI
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    did not see anything about Ching being the first hawaiian ever to play for the Revs either;)
     
  2. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 19, 1999
    Nashua, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Funny story ... just got off the phone with the UMass Lowell hockey coach, to confirm a meeting tonight regarding the status of the program.

    First thing he wanted to know ... "So ... did the Revs guy deserve to go?" :eek:
     
  3. REV-OKe

    REV-OKe Member

    Apr 4, 2001
    and BmB was only average against MLS level players.
     
  4. REV-OKe

    REV-OKe Member

    Apr 4, 2001
    i could see areana rationalizeing it this way.


    none of our forwards by skill or history are run away choices that can't be denied. it's going to come down to preferences, not necisarrily inconrovertable, rational preffernces.

    i'd argue taylor 'earned' it, but in the end, sometimes your hard work doesn't get acknowledged, and in the end, any +- between ching and twellman (or even mcbride or ej or wolff) is arguable and irrellavent - they are just not that far appart.

    sucks for tnt. if the us advances, then arena's a genius. if not he's a goat.

    thats the bottom line.
     
  5. Rodan

    Rodan New Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Providence
    Rational......hmmmmmm.

    You must realize, despite the fact that they're both good MLS players, that Ching has no more claim to being a good international player than Twellman. In fact, Twellman probably has looked a little better in the latter stages of the run up.

    You appear to recognize that it was close, but in Arena's mind, the edge went to Ching for a couple of reasons: size, familiarity with Donovan, ability to fill McBride roles, etc.

    All of these reasons are debatable in their own right: although the weight of evidence clearly went Chings way in the coach's mind.

    And yet, you're trolling around looking for an argument on a subject that's already been settled in the place where your most likely to stir up some resistance to it (due to the local familiarity and affection for the player that didn't make it).
     
  6. firstshirt

    firstshirt Member+

    Bayern München
    United States
    Mar 1, 2000
    Ellington, CT / NK, RI
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If they advance on a goal by Ching then he is a genius, otherwise I don;t think the choice of taylor or Ching will effect the fate of the nats. Only way he is a goat is if Ching blows a PK or has an own goal
     
  7. Sine Pari

    Sine Pari Member

    Oct 10, 2000
    NUNYA, BIZ
    Sorry I'm not of the Johnny Most style of fandom - blind allegiance to the home team
     
  8. REV-OKe

    REV-OKe Member

    Apr 4, 2001

    i guess i should clarify. the selection of one player or another is a minor factor.

    they advance, and bruce could have selected a left handed headless chicken over twellman and he'd be a hero.

    he loses, and he's a goat. if he loses and ching misses the pk, then he's a super goat. he advances and ching misses the pk, then yeah he blew that one, but he's still a hero. he loses and ching scores despite, then he's a goat, but atleast he got that right.

    so, again, bruces fate and (history will judge) not on the choice of marignally different strikers (potato vs. potaahto) , but on how far this team goes.


    still feel bad for twellman. and still think (always have, but not because of this) that arena is not so great.
     
  9. Rodan

    Rodan New Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Providence
    Whatever.


    BTW, I'm not usually a big fan of Marc Connolly's, but this might be the most balanced description of the final 23 thought-process that I've seen so far:

    Arena settles U.S. World Cup roster debate
     
  10. NFLPatriot

    NFLPatriot Member+

    Jun 25, 2002
    Foxboro, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    FWIW:

    Twellman's first 4 MLS seasons: 64 goals, 1 MVP
    McBride's first 4 MLS seasons: 38 goals, 0 MVP
    McBride's 8 MLS seasons: 62 goals, 0 MVP
     
  11. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    Boy, some of us really have Rev-colored blinders on.

    Twellman has been pure shite so far this season (and let's not hear all that crap about no service - he's been screwing up the chances he has gotten).

    TT got himself back in the mix with that hat-trick, but since then he never closed the deal. Ching came out hot in the MLS season. For a guy who is not likely to play in the remaining tuneups or the 1st couple of WC games, it was CRITICAL for him to be at his peak in MLS - and Twellman has been far from his peak.

    I keep hearing about no service and how the formation is screwing him up. BS. I've been watching the tapes and part of the reason the Revs attack is so bogged down is that Twellman has been unable to hold the ball. It's not necessarily that Ching is bigger, it's that he's better at holding the ball.

    I have major problems with Wolff, but Twellman is not an alternative to Wolff. Someone like Rolfe or Cunningham probably is.
     
  12. RevsRule

    RevsRule Member+

    NE Revs, LAFC
    Jun 9, 1999
    N. Eastern, Mass
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Run down the list and see who is not playing crappy. Could it be Johnson ... nope he's sucked. How about Olsen - he sucks on a good day. We have Wolff who can't score but makes nice runs. John O'brien??? How DID he win a spot and wanna bet he'll go down in less then a month. Beasley?? sucked in Germany. McBride ??? OK but getting a little old.

    The face is that Twellman was held to a different set of standards then others Arena picked. He found a reason to take a chance on some while holding others at fault or crediting them, based on their MLS team's performance. Does anyone really think Ching is a better scorer then Twelman? Put Twellman in Houston and Ching in NE and TT would be packing his bags. His problems in MLS are mostly due to the fact that SN has botched the team and the formation and TT is paying the price. He was holding the ball well during the WC run up. If I was Twellman, I'd be a little more than bitter and I know exactly who I would blame for my fall from grace.

    It's almost 24 hours later and I'm just as pissed as I was.
     
  13. tedski

    tedski Member

    Sep 10, 2000
    Tucson, Baja Arizona
    Club:
    Jagiellonia Bialystok SSA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is this a variant of the Dan Quayle theory?

    "Hey McBride, you better play well and not get injured, because anything happens, we'll have to pull you out and put in Ching..."
     
  14. Portugeezer!

    Portugeezer! Member

    Jun 8, 2005
    Raynham, MA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal

    Amen guy!
    The bottom line is TT is not one of Arena's favs. And Ching is buddies with Arena's butt plug Landy Cakes Donovan. To sit there and say that TT doesn't deserve to go based on a handfull of bad games in MLS is complete BS.
    I can sit here and go up and down his 23 man roster and half of the roster doesn't make sense. I'm just as amazed that Noonan wasn't picked. There's a guy that cam be played in several postions, but is sitting at home while Ben Olsen gets picked.
    What about Tim Howard? Last year, when the guy was getting Champions League experience while starting in half of Man United's games, he hardly ever got called up to the NT. But yet one year later,when he does nothing bet sits on the bench, arena decides to call him up to the WC. WTF?
     
  15. Jon Martin

    Jon Martin Member+

    Apr 25, 2000
    SE Mass
    It's JMO. Honest people can disagree, no?
     
  16. Dan B

    Dan B New Member

    Feb 21, 1999
    Marlborough, MA, USA
    No, then they would just be lying, and that would be dishonest.
     
  17. okcomputer

    okcomputer Member

    Jun 25, 2003
    dc
    Mcbride never had the service in Columbus that Taylor has had in NE.
     
  18. IRguy

    IRguy Member

    Sep 28, 2004
    Vermont
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ding, Ding, we have a winner! I think I’m one of the few people who is only slightly surprised that ching got the call over TNT and after watching last weeks games i really felt Ching would be a better call. Both players scored goals but if u go back and watch the games u will see that TNT did a really poor job of receiving that ball and holding it granted the Fire players where doing a lot of hack and grab, but still a good target forward would be able to handle that. Now watch the Houston game, Ching was doing a great job hold up the ball was key to Houston killing of the game. What really opened my eyes to Ching was the Germany game he really held the ball and did a good job of laying it off under a lot of pressure from Physical Defenders.

    I do fell TNT deserve to go and feel bad for the guy, but IMO there are about 30 or so guys who Deserve to go but the Roster only holds 23 so some guys are gong to get cut Deserve to go. There are some fans who think the USMNT is an all-star team, but it's not it's a team that built to win games and them means u take the 23 most useful players not the 23 best players. So while there is a very good argument that TNT is a better striker in the box then Josh Wolf, Wolf brings a lot of other things to the table like pace, great runs, great passing and vision for a forward and TNT does not. Simply speaking there are a lot guys that can does what TNT does plus other attributes.
     
  19. REV-OKe

    REV-OKe Member

    Apr 4, 2001
    well Twellman never had the service that mcbride has on the usmnt.

    and i'm not sure that's a fair statment. twellman has scored consistantly for the revs, no matter who he's played with, how good the team has been and what the sitiuation has been. he's had good service and no service. still kept scorring.

    and if i had to guess, you didn't see most of twellmans AND mcbrides games. so how do you come to that conclusion?
     
  20. REV-OKe

    REV-OKe Member

    Apr 4, 2001

    goals are the only attribute that win games. fwds need to score goals. period.

    picking a forward for other atribites is called 'over coaching'

    picking a forward because 'i like the way he holds my balls' is what you do when you are plannign to lose all your games. or play to not lose.

    you think brasil picks forwards who don't score?
     
  21. beryl420

    beryl420 Member

    Apr 25, 2002
    Hartford
    Ching may be better at holding the ball-fine. It all depends on what you are looking for from your fourth forward. To my mind, Twellman would be the perfect forward to come into the game in the 75th minute with the team down a goal and just hoisting balls into the box. If there is one player who will go up and get a ball with his head in a crowd or pounce on a loose ball in the box and knock it in, it is TT. That has always been his game (think of all the last minute goals last year)

    If you are looking for a 90 minute forward against Italy, maybe not.

    Bur for my money, TT is the perfect late game down a goal sub.
     
  22. Owlsfan

    Owlsfan Member

    Jun 22, 2000
    I don't agree with the choice, but I'm not the coach and nor will I not support the USA doing well, regardless of a questionable but not completely outrageous selection.

    I do not wish any USMNT member to be injured simply to allow TT to get his (quite possibly deserved) chance to be a member of the squad.

    Even though it might be over coaching, I do believe to an extent you have to build and select members for a team allied with the tactics you think you'll be using. This might well result in not necessarily the best players being picked, just the perceived best players being picked for the overall side. I'm assuming Bruce Arena did this (even though I might disagree with it). Point is, I can see why Bruce Arena might pick a lesser goal scorer for a forward.

    And yes, count me in as a somewhat disgruntled USMNT fan. I've always thought that TT has a natural goal scoring instinct and a nose for goal, regardless of his other limitations. That alone is worth the price of admission for me -players like that are a rarity and can win games. If the USA get into a game where they have opportunities to win and don't due to lack of finishing, then the exclusion of TT should haunt Bruce Arena. On the other hand, its worth noting that the US might expect to see some tough defensive games with Italy and the Czech Rep, where chances and service are limited and the need for some individual breaking play to score is highest -exactly when TT is weakest. It goes without saying that if Ching does play and scores an own goal or fluffs a couple of crucial chances........

    I wonder (since I'm of the belief that TT is a natural goalscorer) how he'd do in a European league -yes, I know he was in Germany for a time (can't remember the team) and didn't seem to make an impression, but then you can also say that about an other very prominent member of the USMNT. I wonder if TT can step up his play and keep scoring goals in a "higher" league if given the chance again -I have a strange feeling he could. If Brian McBride (who never struck me as good enough to do well in the EPL, it just shows!) can do it, why not TT?

    Lastly, I'm also fed up of reading posts from people (maybe not in this board) about how one dimensional TT is and how that's a crucial blight to his game in that he just scores goals and does not create. I'm still patiently waiting for the "multi-dimensional" defender who can goalkeep, tackle, spread the ball and create chances at the other end....... And I'm really fedup with Kasey Keller's one dimensional game of just goalkeeping -when can he show he can score anyway? He doesn't create much does he?

    So yes, I'm sorry that TT didn't get the call. This might bode ill for the Revs if he becomes very unsettled and attempts one last push to the Euro leagues, or then again, he might vent some personal frustration and score 10 against the Colorado Rapids. Anyway, who knows, perhaps TT will still end up going -alas if he does it will probably be on the back of someone elses injury.
     
  23. IRguy

    IRguy Member

    Sep 28, 2004
    Vermont
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    NO, that’s not what I’m saying. What I mean is all these guys are good 10 yrd form goal, but unlike TNT they all bring other things to the table.

    IMO, none of these guys have proven they can score goals at the highest level outside of BMB. So all of them r a risk not to score, but each of them can bring something different to the table that will help the team.

    I'm sure you realize that Brazil has a lot of guys that can to all of the above.
     
  24. IRguy

    IRguy Member

    Sep 28, 2004
    Vermont
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Flip that around though, say we a leading Italy 1-0 in 75th and they r toughing everything at us who would u rather have in TNT who gets knocked off the ball easily be avg MLS defenders or Ching? Personally i don't think there is that big of a gap between TNT and Chings Finishing begin with.

    Don't get me wrong I love TNT and would love for him to be on the team but i understand why Burse took Ching. Personally, I’m much more worried about JOB on the roster then Ching. Beside I’m happy he is going to be knocking goals for the Revs this summer. :)
     
  25. rhiggz

    rhiggz Member

    Oct 6, 2004
    Oregon
    I don't buy that. I don't think Ching posesses the ball very well either and he doesn't defend as well/as hard. He got called in because he's taller and more like McBride whom Arena can't live without.
     

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