Polska hooligan culture?

Discussion in 'Poland' started by Casper1377, Aug 5, 2002.

  1. Casper1377

    Casper1377 New Member

    Oct 20, 2001
    I've been wondering how the "hooligan" element in Polska has been or is. For example, has Polska and England ever had any problems over the years or Polska vs. Germany, etc...meaning have their been any real battles over the years?
    Also, when it comes to club teams and their supporters, have Legia or Wisla Krakow battled any other foreign club teams like, say, West Ham, Chelsea, Man. Utd, Bayern, etc, etc...do any of the PZPN clubs have hateful rivalries and battle? now or in the past? I've read about Legia having a pretty tough crew behind one of the goals...what's the story on them? What are they called?

    just trying to get a grasp for things. I read alot about this kind of thing. Any info would be really cool. Thanks!

    na zdrowie!
     
  2. Sopot26

    Sopot26 New Member

    Oct 2, 2001
    Sopot - Chicago
    Arka Gdynia vs. Lechia Gdansk

    Legendary fans battles!!!
     
  3. RhinosBoy21

    RhinosBoy21 New Member

    Oct 18, 2001
    Rochester NY, but or
    Polish fans always fight the Brits anytime they meet. Perfect example is from 1999 when England played in Warsaw and alot of Brits were in hospital's during the match from injuries. Gornik and Kotowice are rivals that hate each other. LKS Lodz and Widzew Lodz really hate each other. Even though they are in different leagues, they still fight. Legia and Lech Poznan had some really good battles in the past, and now since Lech is back to the first Divison they should have some more good fights.

    Poland has the best hooligans in the world, thats for sure.
     
  4. marek

    marek Member

    Lechia Gdańsk
    Poland
    Jun 27, 2000
    Club:
    OSP Lechia Gdansk
    One way to tell if you're leaving Gdansk and entering Gdynia is to keep an eye out for the graffitti. Lechia changes to Arka, and its everywhere.

     
  5. MikeLastort2

    MikeLastort2 Member

    Mar 28, 2002
    Takoma Park, MD
    That's really something to be proud of.
     
  6. Casper1377

    Casper1377 New Member

    Oct 20, 2001
    dobry, dobry, dobry!

    this is brilliant! thanks for all the info...can anyone fill in more details of the England vs. Polska match in 1999 that was mentioned? It was in Warsaw, then? Was anyone at that match?

    Anything anybody knows about this entire subject I'd love to hear. Call it 'morbid curiosity' I guess. Like someone who studies about serial killers or terrorism or something. I follow football ultra culture. And Polska, well...Bialo Czerwoni Wojownicy! Love 'em!

    thanks and cheers!
     
  7. Stinkey Turner

    Dec 15, 2000
  8. RhinosBoy21

    RhinosBoy21 New Member

    Oct 18, 2001
    Rochester NY, but or
    Sure is man, now go suck a fat one.
     
  9. BrianCappellieri

    BrianCappellieri Red Card

    Feb 11, 2002
    And it's not even true...
     
  10. tredowski

    tredowski New Member

    Dec 2, 2001
    exactly.
    and thank God it isn't.
     
  11. BrianCappellieri

    BrianCappellieri Red Card

    Feb 11, 2002
    I hardly think Polish hools have a "culture." Most just seem to be a bunch of drunk racists who could care less about football.

    But here's another link to check out: Hooligans.cz
     
  12. Konrad

    Konrad New Member

    Jul 6, 2001
    Atlanta, GA
    I think in 2000 there was a Germany vs Poland friendly that had to be stopped. Some German Fans had a flag with "Schindler Jews we salute you" after they raised that all hell broke out...
     
  13. RhinosBoy21

    RhinosBoy21 New Member

    Oct 18, 2001
    Rochester NY, but or
    Poland didn't play Germany in 2000.

    "I hardly think Polish hools have a "culture." Most just seem to be a bunch of drunk racists who could care less about football."

    And why do you think so? Ever been to a game? Or are you just another dumb yank?
     
  14. BrianCappellieri

    BrianCappellieri Red Card

    Feb 11, 2002
    No, I haven't had the privelege of visiting Warsaw but I was basing my comment on what I've read and what I've heard from friends who are from Poland. I know not all Polish hooligans are racist but many of them seem to be.

    Dumb Yank? Should i make some ignorant "dumb Polak" jokes now or later?
     
  15. tredowski

    tredowski New Member

    Dec 2, 2001
    Now RhinosBoy21, how can any type of hooligans have a "culture"?
    Tell me what is there to be proud of about the fact that a bunch of skinheads go beat people up and ruin soccer for everyone in Poland?
    Do you know how many regular people who would normaly be coming to peacefully watch the matches this turns away? Poland doesn't need that.
    Even you have to admit that the attendance is pretty bad at league games. And hooliganism is the main reason for it.
     
  16. BrianCappellieri

    BrianCappellieri Red Card

    Feb 11, 2002
    Tredowski, I agree with you for the most part but hooliganism does have culture because it is a part of history (and obviously is around today). And I think you're generalizing with skinheads. Most Skins are racist or violent.

    People who are members of UK firms and Italian ultras groups have created a culture and way of life. Polish hooligans I'm not so sure about...
     
  17. RhinosBoy21

    RhinosBoy21 New Member

    Oct 18, 2001
    Rochester NY, but or
    Yes, Hooligians make people stay at home. People don't go to matches in Poland becasue alot of the families can not afford it. In Zabrze, a ticket costs 20 zloty for a person over 18 or for kids without id. A family of 4 can not go to a match a spend 80 zloty to just watch a game. Theres alot of people jobless in Poland, or going to work under the table in Germany. Hooligans are not the main problem.

    Without the hooligans attendence would also go down. There is no room in the game for quiet matches either. Not every match is there a fight. People who don't know what they are talking about should stay out of this. My biggest problem here was that Brian calling Polish hooligans "Drunk racists". Poland has hooligans, yes. Every country has Hooligans. Don't turn this into "Poland is bad becasue of hooligans" Everywhere in Europe you see Hools.

    England/Poland also is different. England started 85% of the fights which happened during that day, night before and night after the match. Poles stood up and we're gonna be bullied by Brits, and they responded. Blame the Brits first, then blame us. Then i would agree with you. If someone on the road hit me from behind out of the blue, i would fight back. And if i saw a stick on the ground i would pick it up. And theres nothing wrong with that, i would be only protecting my self. Same happened in Warsaw in 99.
     
  18. RhinosBoy21

    RhinosBoy21 New Member

    Oct 18, 2001
    Rochester NY, but or
    Explain this. I am missing something. Maybe your racist against Poles?
     
  19. BrianCappellieri

    BrianCappellieri Red Card

    Feb 11, 2002
    Explain what? Your reading comprehension must be very poor.

    I'm not racist against anyone. I even said in the above post that I had Polish friends.

    And I'm sorry if I angered you but I hate to tell you that the majority of hooligans EVERYWHERE are racist. Remember, I said the majority not every single group or every single person. If you don't at least agree with that it proves to me you know nothing.
     
  20. RhinosBoy21

    RhinosBoy21 New Member

    Oct 18, 2001
    Rochester NY, but or
    I dont see the difference between Polish hools, Italian or English. They created culture by... kicking the sh!t out of other supporters? By throwing rocks into team bus holding players (Lazio)? By killing people? I see man, so what your saying is Poles need to be more hardcore to "have culture"?
     
  21. BrianCappellieri

    BrianCappellieri Red Card

    Feb 11, 2002
    No, I never said anything like that. Polish groups are probably just (if not more) violent than anyone else. I've heard some pretty gruesome stories about fights from people who witnessed them first hand.

    If you read about the history of hooligan firms in the UK you'll understand what I mean about culture. All of the changes and incidents over decades including rivalries and alliances, clothing and fashion, music, and general "terrace culture."

    In Italy, many groups of ultras are not just supporters but active in politics. They're also MUCH more organized whether it's making 'Tifos' or fighting (if they are hools).

    I'm just saying they have a more storied history and the one's who influenced all of Europe. Then some southern and eastern and even more recently northern Europeans followed.
     
  22. RhinosBoy21

    RhinosBoy21 New Member

    Oct 18, 2001
    Rochester NY, but or
    Doesn't explain throwing rocks at a team bus, theres much more killings in Italy then anywhere in Europe besides Greece and Turkey. Doesn't explain Millwall fans taking bricks from their own stadium and throwing them. I guess thats culture.

    Put clubs aside, you think English fans don't fight when it comes to their national team? Theres a reason why alot of them got banned from matches and it got nothing to do with culture.

    English fans start things everywhere they go. They lost fights to Polish fans and now we got no culture. And about your little stories you heard, I'v seen many things happen for my own two eyes. But i'v heard of alot worse things happening in Italy or when the England national team plays.

    Go read up some more before you start talking. Maybe this time, try to not read something read by an American.
     
  23. BrianCappellieri

    BrianCappellieri Red Card

    Feb 11, 2002
    Thanks for putting words in my mouth once again. I never said I agreed with any of it.

    What do you mean by "we have no culture?" You're not even a hooligan...

    "Go read up some more before you start talking."
    This is exactly the advice I have for you.

    "Maybe this time, try to not read something read by an American."
    What the hell does that mean?
     
  24. tredowski

    tredowski New Member

    Dec 2, 2001
    I don't want to keep fueling an argument but here's a few things I'll add:

    that's true there are usually a lot more violent incidents with hooligans in Poland than compared to other countries. Once again, its something to be ashamed of. But since some people are interested about this topic, here's some statistics up until 1998 from WarsawVoice about this:

    Number of sports events in which the police organized safety:
    • 1995 - 1,300
    • 1996 - 16,685
    • 1997 - 17,001
    • 1998 - 16,968
    Number of hooligan attacks during sports events:
    • 1995 - 905
    • 1996 - 917
    • 1997 - 1,064
    • 1998 - 826
    Number of persons detained for further clarification (of those no. of juveniles):
    • 1995 - 1,698 (426)
    • 1996 - 1,881 (496)
    • 1997 - 2,335 (742)
    • 1998 - 2,132 (443)
    Suits filed:
    • 1995 - 146
    • 1996 - 81
    • 1997 - 186
    • 1998 - 143
    Suits filed in juvenile courts:
    • 1995 - 104
    • 1996 - 187
    • 1997 - 189
    • 1998 - 295
    well, hooliganism of course probably isn't as developed or as well organized as in the UK because things used to be a lot more tight on people in Poland before the 90's (because of the Communists). However, there was actually a lot of stuff going on, except most of it usually never made it out to news in the West. There were fewer incidents than now, but there were still some big incidents that few people knew about. For example, in Czestochowa in 1980, before the final of the Polish Cup between Legia Warszawa and Lech Poznan there was a very big confrontation between hooligans and the militia, but most people only heard about it and the victims by word from other people. The official version of the incident didn't appear until a whole decade later.
    Or in May 1981, when a match between Widzew Lodz and Legia Warszawa was being boradcast live. The supporters of Legia, who were outnumbered and attacked by Lodz hooligans, were forced onto the field as their only way of escape. The typical "we apologize for this interruption" sign appeared on people's TVs.

    There were also plenty of alliances going around then that still exist today (a lot of them they started to form in the early 80's). Titles of "zgoda" (accord) and "kosa" (scythe) formed between several clubs as terms used to show who was an ally and who was a rival. To name a few back then:
    • Legia Warszawa allied with Pogon Szczecin and Zaglebie Sosnowiec
    • Widzew Lodz had no friends. Their enemies were their local rivals LKS and Legia Warszawa.
    • Slask Wroclaw's hooligans paired with Lechia Gdansk and Wisla Krakow.

    and to add to the supposed "culture", as you put it, in the clothing and fashion of hooligans -- that exists also, although probably not as well developed as in other countries. For example, once a teenage fan who was wearing a LKS Lodz patch on his jacket was thrown from a train on the Warsaw-Lodz line by a group wearing shirts with the letter "L" (for Legia Warszawa) on them. A lot of other similar incidents happen all the time because rival hooligan groups identify others through clothing.

    There are all sorts of other things in this area I don't know about but you can find out for yourself if you feel like it.
     
  25. RhinosBoy21

    RhinosBoy21 New Member

    Oct 18, 2001
    Rochester NY, but or
    Now lets see the same statistics for Italy.
     

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