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Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by SoFla Metro, Mar 18, 2004.
Coalition of the Deceived
ROME (AFP) - An Italian minister broke ranks with his pro-war government on Iraq (news - web sites), telling a newspaper that last year's invasion could have been a mistake, and was in any case not the best thing to have done.
Let's look again at troop levels again:
Others (25): 3,722
Of the above, Spain is pulling; Netherlands is looking like it will pull; Poland says it will stick for now, though it knows it was lied to; Honduras, at 370 a full 10% of the "Other" category, is leading the Central American flight by pulling their troops, with El Salvador and Guatemala likely to follow suit; and now Italy is showing some signs of wavering.
But hey, I think Eritrea is still with us!
You do realize that Honduras, San Salvador and Guatemala fell under the control of the Spanish forces. If Spain were to pull out so would they, hence them pulling out.
Which underscores the hilarity of counting Honduras, El Salvador and Guatemala in the Coaltion of the Shilling in the first place, doesn't it?
The 'coalition' is beginning to look like the kids who hang out with the school bully because they're afraid to get on his bad side.
Either that, or they're the crowd that hangs out with the rich kid, who somehow has convinced himself that they like him for who he is, rather than his sports car and credit card.
As well as the Dominican Republic (another 302 troops).
Never fear. We can always call in replacements from the Democratic Republic of Gyrowithextratzazikistan.
No, Greece is too busy "preparing" for the Olympics, and I do use that term loosely.
So much for "new Europe"
Now, wait a minute. Spin all you like, but there's nothing here to indicate that Kwasniewski feels he was "lied to", as Norsk Troll puts it. It's just as likely that he feels he was "misled" by the many intelligence agencies that reported that Saddam had advanced WMD programs--such as France's and Germany's--, or that he was "misled" by the fact that Saddam refused to allow full and unfettered access to all sites that IAEA inspectors wanted to see, which seems like the logical thing one would do if proving that you don't have any WMDs is your only chance of keeping the most powerful military the earth has ever seen from targetting you.
In a quote convieniently omitted by our good friend SoFla, in fact, Kwasniewski states that being misled was also "the problem of the United States, of Britain and also of many other nations". Translation: Kwasniewski doesn't think Bush lied to him.
As for the laughable idea that Poland might withdraw troops in the near future:
There are other factors at play here too--Poland is set to join the EU in a couple months and may wish to make amends with the French and German bureaucrats who run that organization (altho not at the expense of its ties to the US--after all, it was America who leveraged economic and military pressure on the USSR and allowed men like Lech Walesa to free Poland while French and Germans held pro-Communist demonstrations), and the issue of Polish reconstruction contracts in Iraq (we haven't given them as many as we rightfully should).
In short, this is a relative non-story spun up by a leftist media to make Bush look bad.
What would it take for you to admit that the unilateral invasion of a sovreign nation by the USA was a mistake?
Bush doesn't need the leftist media to make him look bad. He does that all by himself.
Worst. President. Ever.
If the invasion had occured without provocation or just cause, I would admit it was a mistake. Of course, the invasion was without neither provocation nor just cause--nor was it unilateral or ov a sovereign nation (if you consider having a legitimate government to be a prerequisite of sovereignty).
Here, folks, we have leftist mud-slinging at work. Mike here can't dispute the numerous facts which are presented throughout my post, so he dodges the issues and resorts to personal attacks against Bush. He'll probably step it up to personal attacks against me when he replies to this.
...since the last one.
Wouldn't that be the Real?
Except, perhaps, Kwasniewski's own words:
In another sign of the cracks appearing in the US-led coalition, Mr Kwasniewski said of the Bush Administration: "That they deceived us about the weapons of mass destruction, that's true.
"We were taken for a ride."
Doesn't sound like he's complaining about intelligence, Alex. Or do you need someone to point out the definition of "deceived"?
Riiiiight. Bill Clinton: Budget surplus, retiring the last "Republican fiscal conservative' debt. Presided over one of the greatest expansions in the national economy ever. Balanced the budget. Avoided invading Iraq to rid them of their WMDs. Avoided being attacked by small bands of Muslim extremists. He did receive a bj in the oval office though.
Your man, GWB, is simply a gigantic failure on all fronts. Which is not really suprising given his background.
Despite the feeling of being "misled", the "Sons of Monte Cassino" are staying the course. At least the Poles believe that stability is coming to Iraq, even with it's problems.
In fairness, this is not exactly true. Remember the first WTC attack in 1993?
"Says of the Bush Administration"? What does that mean? Without a full quote or seeing the question that was asked of him, there's still nothing there to indicate that he thinks Bush personally lied to him and not that the intelligence services (the list of which thought Saddam had advanced WMD programs, again, included France's and Germany's) screwed up. Again, the assertion that the US and UK were also misled is extremely telling, unless you're saying he thinks Bush and Blair lied to themselves.
Anyway, according to CNN's breaking-news text message service, Kwas has just told Bush that Polish troops will stay in Iraq "as long as needed", so the anti-war crowd can give up its wet dream of the Poles--a people who actually have honor and a sense of justice--pulling out.
I'm headed off to class but I couldn't let this one slip by--first WTC attack, Khobar Towers, embassy bombings, USS Cole attack, various attacks against US interests in the Phillippines...should I go on?? Not to mention the OKC bombing which, while Islamic extremists likely had nothing to do with it, was still a breach of security. Yes, 9/11 happened on Bush's watch (altho most of the planning for it did not), but at least he did something to prevent it from happening again, unlike a certain New York Senator's husband.
Re: Coalition of the Deceived
Minister Buttiglione, the supposed "philosopher" with the dumbest face ever, is connected with CL (comunione e liberazione) a very very short minded catholic organization (I call'em fundamentalists, maybe not exactly but really near).
CL was against iraqi invasion. They listen to the Pope.
So, no surprise.
Our wonderful government is probably the first in history capable in declaring that it was against the war and at the same time someway participating in the war (helping occupation).
They still deny they are participating in the occupation, they tend to say they're doing an "humanitarian job".
Miracles of the berlusconi era. Where lies are cheap, honesty an optional.
Berlusconi is the best carpet seller ever lived in earth.
Kwasniwski has now clarified his remarks. He says that he meant that 'Saddam Hussein misled us.'
I'm sure you have a link to a news story to back that up. I haven't found anything on Google that contradicts the original news story.
Hehe. I was replying in kind to the original post by Norsk Troll.
But seriously, Mr. Kwasniewski did say that Poland will stay the course, and that their troops will stay in Iraq 'As long as we are needed and one day longer'. He said his comments about being misled refered to 'intelligence failures in general' but not about the USA.
Must we always provide a link? Well, ok, here you go:
You are right. My mistake. Should have said avoided being attacked in the US, losing 3000 civilians, and then shuttling Bin Laden's family out of the country. Still the worst-president-ever, though.
Pro-Communist Demonstrations? Do you really believe that? Who told you that? I think in Germany (West) the communist party (DKP) gained less than 1% of the votes in each election. So you better make some research.
And we had a huge expensive army to also put some pressure on the USSR - of course we didn´t have the same maount as the US did. And you know what? My father helped building a tunnel in 1964 for helping refugees fleeing East Berlin and a frined of us was imprisoned in Bautzen (east German prison) for almost two years beacuse of fighting against the communists.
So please don´t write that kind of bvllshite! And it were the east german refugees who also helped overthrowing communism in 1989.
I believe you have to rethink your post - REALLY!