Playing Advantage in the Penalty Area

I only saw the reply from above, but I don't think the ref is applying advantage there. I think the ref is letting play continue, and doesn't view the fighting for the ball as a foul.

 

Hard to tell from the replay (aside from the fact that the referee seems to be in another part of the continent), but when the Egyptian player gets up and passes the ball across, the camera pans briefly past the ref. At that point, he is not giving any type of signal, advantage or otherwise. So it may well be that, as Chris says, that the ref didn't see a foul, which is in itself pretty amazing.

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but in my experience Advantage is typically not signaled in the PA. Applied, yes, signaled, no.

 

I have seen it signaled, and I have signaled it in the PA. Generally, I think clear, timely signals work the best. Standing there (or running) like a deer in headlights is not going to help you sell your call, no matter what your call is.

You can always signal the advantage a little late, and if it doesn't immediately develop, then blow the whistle.

 

Nevermind. I just watched the video. There was no advantage signal because there was simply no foul. Good no-call by the referee, who made a hard sprint to get on top of it.

 

A little late? You're only supposed to allow 2-3 seconds anyway, and more like 1-2 in the PA.

The issue, as I understand it, is with players having a different concept of advantage than what it really is, and becoming upset when you believe the advantage materialized (legitimate scoring opportunity) and they disagree (ball didn't end up in the back of the net).

Note that Jim Allen, FWIW, says that Advantage should not be signaled in the PA:

a referee may apply the advantage clause to fouls or misconduct in the penalty area, but both the mechanics and the standards for judgment are different. The distinction is fairly clear and well accepted: In the case of mechanics, the referee should not use the advantage signal if the offense has occurred inside the penalty area--keep your mouth shut and your whistle down. In the case of decision standards, advantage inside the penalty area is based on what happens almost immediately after the offense (rather than the more relaxed standard of 2-3 seconds) and on whether a goal is scored (instead of the more relaxed standard of the fouled team being able to maintain possess and attacking capability).

http://www.drix.net/jim/past061.html

Basically, on a foul in the PA, if the ball's not in the back of the net within a second after you've got the whistle to your mouth, call the foul.

 

Exactly.

I was well aware of Jim's advice prior to the post. However, I would still recommend giving the advantage signal within that 1-2 second time frame before the goal is scored. If the goal is not scored, then call the foul. Again, you give the signal to communicate to the players that (1) you saw the incident; and (2) you saw the advantage. Otherwise, you indicate to the players that you missed the incident, and by blind luck the ball ended up in the back of the net. Which referee do you want to be?

 

I want to be the referee who does not get surrounded by angry defenders claiming that "YOU ALREADY GAVE ADVANTAGE!!"

Waiting a second or two before calling or deciding not to call a foul that will result in a penalty area will not shoot my credibility down. If anyone asks I'll say I wanted to see what was going to happen next.

 

I think I've only ever applied advantage in the PA. First was similar to Champions League when keeper takes out attacker yet ball scoots to another attacker who has the simple job of side-footing the ball into an empty net. Good awareness and positioning helped with that one. Keeper earned a caution rather than a dismissal.

Second, attacker gets to ball (header) a split second before keeper takes her out in an attempt to punch. Ball is heading towards goal, but ends up wide. Whistle and signal for PK. Caution for keeper.

 

Exactly, you almost always want to wait and see the result of the play/tackle before calling or not calling anything. It's important to understand the timing in this particular situation. Because its only 1-2 seconds in the PA, you will be basically be signalling the advantage just as the ball goes into the goal, or you will be blowing the whistle just as the goal is missed. What's important is not blowing the whistle just before the ball goes into the goal. If you want to add additional credibility that you saw the foul (that it would have been a PK) and that you saw the advantage, then signal for the advantage in that 1-2 seconds after the foul and just before they score.

 

I did, of course, mean to say that I've only ever applied advantage in the PA TWICE...

 

I would like to ask Press politely why he would still use the advantage signal in the PA while knowing what Jim Allen's thoughts are on the topic? Should we be looking to Mr. Allen as the de facto regulator? Or am I overemphasizing his importance to us as referees.

Rog

 

You will do well for yourself to follow all of Jim's advice generally. However, his advice in this situation is just that: advice (opinion). Nowhere in the LOTG, ATR, or FIFA Q&A will you find instructions indicating what you should do in this exact situation (there is, however, a USSF memo from after the Champions League final posted on the Topics of Interest site). You will only find instructions about signaling advantage generally. And, different countries will do it slightly differently. The facts of the particular foul, opportunity to score, location in the PA, and timing will dictate how and when you signal and/or whistle. You have to be able to read the game.

The most important aspect, here, is following Law 18. It would be ridiculous to explain to the teams that because the advantage developed 2.5 seconds after the foul (instead of within 2 seconds), that you are pulling the ball out of the goal to give a PK. If you want to indicate that you saw the foul, you saw the advantage, and you are a good enough referee to allow the advantage, then give the signal. Otherwise, you indicate to the players that you didn't see anything (even if you did see the advantage and allowed it) by not signaling anything.

If you're really worried about it, then signal the advantage just before the ball goes in the goal.

 

At different levels, the game is played for different people - grass roots, it's for the players. At the highest level, it is as much for the paying public, so the requirements become slightly different.

None of the official line or advice withstanding, and I'll still use the official signal when the ball breaks out to a team-mate of the disadvantaged player or if that same player stumbles through, but if I'm right there and if the play is still going and the player/team retains possession and more of an opportunity to benefit by me not stopping the play, I'll be talking to them - "keep going", "you've got it", "we'll play", "play through it", etc.

If it breaks down shortly thereafter, I'll bring it back and will have more grounds for doing so as I've indicated to all who are close enough to be involved that I've seen it and want to see where it is going.

Also pointing at the ball as it makes it's way to a team-mate who has or is breaking through helps - "I've seen the foul, but you've still got the ball. We're playing"

 

In the US, Jim Allen's answers, unless he indicates otherwise, have the official clearance of the USSF, and indicate the interpretation that USSF says referees should use. So Jim's answers are as close to official as you can get.

 

Wow, extremely physical play! Hard to tell who is being fouled, though I agree that it was probably a fair goal. No indication that advantage was played.

 

I don't think Jim's answer necessarily contradicts the ATR 12.39, but it is clear from the advice that you need to use common sense within the game circumstances. Here's the link to ATR 12.39:

http://images.ussoccer.com/Documents/cms/ussf/AdvicetoRef06.pdf

 

yes yes i agree.

 

While his answers are official I'd point out in this 2006 question he was specifically answering this occurrence. He does not believe that only a goal scored would equal advantage realized in the penalty area. A good solid shot taken immediately following the foul would possibly qualify especially at lower levels of play. The level of play and specific circumstances would have to be taken into account.

 

This was akin to my thought on this incident. The result of applying advantage is not always a goal, even in the PA. The fact a goal was not scored does not always indicate whether or not the advatage was realized. If I had already allowed play to continue that long after an incident like the one in question, I would have a hard time calling play back simply because the attacking player flubbed the shot.