I tried to make a list Clubs: Total Carrer: Sources: https://www.transfermarkt.es/ https://www.footballdatabase.eu/en/ and wikipedia
Cruyff 180 assists and Messi 318 assists? When I believe this is closer to the correct number. https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/johan-cruyff-matches-and-goals-scored.1865250/page-80 And Messi's 300+ assists nowadays also include rebound assists, pk caused and you don't know what more too (according to the French Wiki are 289) Overall your stats for the nowadays players are inflated, and your stats for the old legends are missing a lot. A tip when you can't prove your numbers, don't put them in or it will look like cheap propaganda (even though I believe you don't care about it). Ultimately, you should delete this table because it is false, inconsistent and you don't have knowledge to elaborate something of this type with the minimum of credibility.
For example: Cruyff 63075 minutes (86,8 per match), 412 non-PK goals, at least 348 assists + at least 56 caused penalties = 1.084 or 1.164 per 90. 760/1882 or 816/1882 Messi 69439 minutes (~81 per match), 608 Non-PK goals and 289 assists. = 1.162 per 90. 897/2051 They look much more closer now. Point is legends of the past are understated in your shite table (it can be proposital or not, coming from where it comes from, we can imagine).
Official Barcelona FC website (totally fair data) https://www.fcbarcelona.es/es/futbol/primer-equipo/jugadores/4974/lionel-messi Messi 718 matches, 627 goals and 267 assists In 57874 minutes thats 1.389 goals generated per 90m Cruyff is the only player I made an estimation based on this https://www.transfermarkt.es/johan-cruyff/leistungsdatenverein/spieler/8021 297 matches recorded in clubs, 25774 minutes, 156 goals, 78 assists. Thats 0.272 assists per 90m and 0.817 goals generated per 90m.
being generous the info from Ajax is the only thats look objectively correct in terms of assists. 16229 minutes, 73 assists (0.405 per 90m). 1.048 goals generated per 90m in 188 matches in Ajax If Cruyff kept that assist rate in all his carrer, he would have approximately 267 assists in 684 matches. So in 59371 minutes, 371 goals and 267 assists, thats 0.967 goals generated per 90m in clubs
What's the source for the 250 Maradona assists? How many from open play? Something like 30% of his goals are penalties...
Totally fair based on what? Is Barca site validated by Opta, Statsbomb or some analytics site or something? It counts wide assists, rebound assists, pk caused, fk caused, shots on post assists etc. While Cruyff is not the only player you made an estimation, the legends of the past all you did starting to Pelé to Di Stéfano to Puskas, Cruyff, Eusébio, Zico, Van Basten, Romário and others... and an estimation isn't enough to nothing, unless you put them there to spread some agenda. For example the source you used to Maradona (254 assists), the spanish wikipedia, just one year ago had Pelé with around 329+ assists. Examples: I had all those screenshots. I wouldn't say it is true because it wasn't validated, but your source had those 329+ assists for Pelé for a while. Fact is you either have no prof of that 168 number as well and probably invented that number since I even had difficult to find the exact description of all Santos goals at that time (yes I tried). The minutes also is probably an estimation, even if less wrong than his assists. If it is 329 or more assists like the Spanish Wiki had him, then that would be 680 Non-PK Goals (more ~77 PK according to this site) + '329 assists' out of 2077 Team Goals (going by The Playmaker stats more Cosmos matches I had 58 Cosmos matches, he played 62 official matches, so I'm missing 4 matches), then by 'your minutes estimation' he would had generated ~ 1.335 goals per 90 minutes or 1.239 per 90 non-PK Goals or assists.... much difference for you data. 1009/2077 or 1086/2077 including PKs. ------------------------------------------------------------- Suggestion use the same source for everyone and a reliable source, even Transfermarkt is not confiable, they are overestimating assists to 'modern' players and missing assists for the old players. For example even the French Wiki, that looks more strict, has its weak moments.. like they had Cristiano Ronaldo with 14 assists in 06/07 Premier League while OPTA, don't had it, it seems.: 11 - @cesc4official and @WayneRooney topped the assist charts in 2006-07, registering 11 assists apiece, whilst Frank Lampard (10) was the only other player to reach double figures for assists that season. Pathfinders. #OptaPLSeasons pic.twitter.com/E3z2JaXS8i— OptaJoe (@OptaJoe) April 10, 2020
So you can quote Cruyff has 348 assists based on nothing, just because some guy said it, but I can't say Messi has 267 assists in Barca because is not fair. I give really good source like official barca web, other source like transfermarkt give Messi 261 assists. Like it or not transfermarkt is the best source today for historical data. You know who Messi is, right? is considered by many to be the best player in history, it's not crazy to think that he has better numbers than Cruyff.
What do you think about great players like Shevchenko, Batistuta, Ronaldinho, have significantly worst numbers than a lot of players today?
As far as I know this is not based on nothing, he did a very patient job on it. I really don't put my hand on the fire for that anyway ... but I would still risk that opinion before yours. Transfermarkt is not accurate and is definitely far from the best source (it can give a idea tho, of older players it does not). Transfermarkt counts a lot of wide assists too. Anyway, by your last argument, we already realized that you are not really committed to the truth, but to promoting certain players, especially of your own nationality.
Your dishonesty of including the legends of the past at any cost resulting in the lack of treatment and in the validation and veracity of the data and it cannot be resolved by any logical argument you try to make. Btw, what do you think a 1gpg player as Messi in the La Liga playing with your country shirt lower his numbers a lot in competitive matches. Why Barcelona in the last decade scored the same amount of goals per match without him. Data from La Liga (2010/2011 to the 'incomplete' current season 2019/2020) 309 Matches, 232 W (75% Win Percentage), 53 D, 24 L with Messi (2.42 Points) 2.79 Goals for with Messi, 0.79 Goals Against. Messi scored 1.07 Goals per match or 331 Goals. 35 Matches, 27 W (77% Win Percentage), 2 D, 6 L without Messi (2.37 Points), 2.68 Goals for without Messi, 0.97 Goals Against. Why Messi doesn't score or assist that much against a bit weaker, equally strong or stronger teams than Barcelona Why Messi doesn't reach the same gpg and assist per 90 than Pelé with Argentina or in the big stages? Take in mind that Messi played in high-scoring team and in a key area of the pitch (scoring and assisting positions). In all the teams he played (2; Argentina and Barcelona) these teams scored ********ing 2051 Goals! Almost the same number of what Pelé teams (Santos, Brazil and Cosmos) scored in official matches between 1957 and 1977. Cruyff 63075 minutes (86,8 per match), 412 non-PK goals, at least 348 assists + at least 56 caused penalties = 1.084 or 1.164 per 90. 760/1882 or 816/1882 Messi 69439 minutes (~81 per match), 608 Non-PK goals and 289 assists. = 1.162 per 90. 897/2051 PD: Another mind-blowing stats for you: Neymar without Messi at Barcelona scored at the rate of 1.48 per 90 minutes. Neymar (without Messi) stats at Barcelona 23 Goals, 10 Assists in 1999 minutes (= 22.2 matches). 1.48 G+A per 90. 1999 minutes is not only a few minutes (and it doesn't include his performance and minutes vs Real Madrid in 15/16 for example, most with Messi out of the pitch).
I think I had this discussion before, I made an honest research and Pelé have lower goal contribution than Maradona or Messi Search about Maradona, and his goal contribution and you will be surprised, for me he is the best in history by far. Also the lack of data is real for players before 90s, but in my list most are current and post 90s players, for players like Shevchenko, Batistuta, Ronaldinho, Owen, Shearer, Crespo, the data is 100% correct and they have worse numbers than many of today's players, this is interesting, for me is because we tend to overestimate the old, look how Cristiano Ronaldo, Neymar and Luis Suáres destroy the numbers of Ronaldo, Van basten and Romario.
Those for Sevilla and Argentinos Juniors are made up. The others are actually about right. Also those 29 assists for the national team are more or less right.
Well, transfermarkt shows no data for the Barcelona years while he was arguably more of an assister for Barcelona, or the national team, as in his early Ajax years. That explains how.
Your ass you made a honest research. You made an estimation and you said it in this own thread. You are desqualified and biased person and your table is a complete fake garbage with dirty proposes. Propaganda. Pelé very likely had higher goal contribution than both your players Maradona and Messi. Search about Pelé before and then you talk about Maradona. Your list are most of 'modern players' (they are still lack of data of 90s players like Romário or Van Basten imo) but you still include the legends of the past (with fake numbers) to make your point (overrating your argentinians fellows). About my post I think you didn't read it, or your reading comprehension is bad. You don't take into account the context, that they are playing in superteams, high-scoring teams, luxury teams. But maybe the context is too much for you and/or it is out of your agenda. This table you should post on Facebook or Reddit and not here. This kind of thing fits better there, where people take anything for truth.
English is not my main language, if you want we can speak in Spanish Look, Pelé has 1.299 goals generated per game, do you like this numbers? 821 matches, 761 goals and 297 assists, based on the wikipedia numbers. Messi has 1.319 goals generated per 90m based on Barcelona web, or transfermarkt is the same. Which teams scored the most goals per game, Santos and Brazil or Barcelona and Argentina? WHAT DO YOU THINK? Based on what I have, the teams of Pelé made 2.769 goals per game, the teams of Messi made 2.405 goals per game, a little less, right? Guess what, Pelé generated 46,93% of his teams goals, Messi generated 54,86% of his teams goals
You are still inventing these numbers. Pelé teams goals (1717 in 661 matches, Santos), (233 in 91 matches, Brazil), (127 in 58 matches, Cosmos) so 2077 in 810 official matches according to The Playmakerstats, the Cosmos maches I collected. It is a fair guess and still lacking something like 7 matches, so you could say 2090 or 2100 if you want. It is not 100% accurate, but let's say 80+%. In not one hypothesis it is 2769. Your source you used to Maradona also said 329 or more assists to Pelé, year ago (maybe they are made up or not). Minus the PK: 680 Non-PK Goals (more ~77 PK according to this site) + '329 assists' out of 2077 Team Goals (going by The Playmaker stats more Cosmos matches that info about 58, he played 62 official matches, so I'm missing 4 matches), then by 'your minutes estimation' he would had generated ~ 1.335 goals per 90 minutes or 1.239 per 90 non-PK Goals or assists.... much difference for you data. 1009/2077 or 1086/2077 including PKs. Cruyff 63075 minutes (86,8 per match), 412 non-PK goals, at least 348 assists + at least 56 caused penalties = 1.084 or 1.164 per 90. 760/1882 or 816/1882 Messi 69439 minutes (~81 per match), 608 Non-PK goals and 289 assists. = 1.162 per 90. 897/2051 _______________________________________________________________ Peak 10-years - League Format 1032 - @FCBarcelona have scored 1032 goals last decade in #LaLigaSantander, 357 of them scored by Lionel Messi. Wealth#AskOpta#AskOptaJosé#StayAtHome https://t.co/tBXIYdrVlQ pic.twitter.com/fMic4vmWAK— OptaJose (@OptaJose) April 16, 2020 34.6% Pelé in 60s scored 295 Goals in Campeonato Paulista. Santos in the 60s Paulista scored 839 (294 matches). 35.1%. Pelé played 227 matches in the Campeonato Paulista of 294 possible matches. In those 227 matches Pelé played Santos scored 685 goals. 43% Goal involvement (not including assists), my guess would be he scored three times more than he assisted one goal, so I estimate 57+% direct goals involvement while Pelé was on pitch in the 60s Paulista League. A unverified (and after erased) source in the Wiki Spanish had this number and proportion of goals and assists: Pele for Santos: 201 Matches/255 Goals and 100 assist 1,76 G/A per match 1957-1961 Pele for Santos: 171 Matches/ 222 Goals and 78 Assists. 1,76 G/A per match 1962-1966 Pele for Santos: 144 Matches/107 Goals and 36 assist 0,99 G/A per match 1967-1970 So, basically 584 Goals, 214 assists in 516 matches. My guess would be 3 Goals, 1 Assist, the proportion of this unverified source was 3 Goals, 1.1 assists so more or less equal. No much difference, could be more or less than that. So the numbers are 295 goals, 98 assists in those 227 matches in the Campeonato Paulista, a ratio of 1.73 and a direct participation of 57,4% in Santos Goals while on the pitch. Messi in La Liga (2009-2010 to 2018-2019), 364 Goals and 135 assists in 343 Matches. In those 343 matches Barcelona scored 955 Goals, a direct participation of 52,2% in Barcelona Goals while on the pitch, a ratio of 1.45. Data from Campeonato Paulista (1960-1969) 226 Matches, 163 W (72% Win Percentage), 35 D, 28 L with Pelé (2.32 Points) 3.03 Goals for with Pelé, 1.22 Goals against. Pelé scored 1.30 Goals per match or 295 Goals. 68 Matches, 39 W (57% Win Percentage), 15 D, 14 L without Pelé (1.94 Points) 2.26 Goals for without Pelé, 1.22 Goals against. Data from La Liga (2010/2011 to the 'incomplete' current season 2019/2020) 309 Matches, 232 W (75% Win Percentage), 53 D, 24 L with Messi (2.42 Points) 2.79 Goals for with Messi, 0.79 Goals Against. Messi scored 1.07 Goals per match or 331 Goals. 35 Matches, 27 W (77% Win Percentage), 2 D, 6 L without Messi (2.37 Points), 2.68 Goals for without Messi, 0.97 Goals Against. ^^ These numbers are basically from 9 Messi's leagues seasons (leaving out two other seasons of his 'prime' which would be the seasons of 2008-2009 and 2009-2010) and are 10 seasons of Pelé leaving out some dominant seasons like 1957, 1958, 1959 and 1973 for Santos
I think for old players it is unverifiable mate, and some websites just neglect to include data for years in the 90s even. Your data for lots of the old players (even going back into the 90s) could well be lacking, but another point is that now it is much easier to score than certainly the 80s, 90s, earlier this century, and players play in unbalanced matches much more and with rules that favour attackers more (offsides, fouls being penalised with cards etc).
For example, Giggs has 162 assists in Premier League alone, but also many in domestic cups and until recently the record number in Champions League: https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/goal_assist?se=274