Players of the 2019-20 season

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by PuckVanHeel, Oct 22, 2019.

  1. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    We'll agree to disagree here. I thought the ref was fine on the Blind decisions. I would not personally have sent off Veltman but I don't think it's shocking.

    Well the first two France goals came from questionable decisions (though I could see the logic in the Perisic handball).

    Rugby just takes a far more commonsense approach. Roberto Firmino's armpit was offside on the weekend. In rugby they don't bother with drawing lines on screens, it has to be a clearly forward pass (kind of equivalent to offside) for the officials to question it.

    The Dutch VAR officials seemed to get a lot of games and did a good job.

    North London isn't far from Amsterdam. He can feel at home there. It is a shame, though Morocco have got some excellent players (born overseas) and make an exciting team themselves.

    I wasn't watching that point.
     
    Gregoriak repped this.
  2. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Makes no sense to complain about the Champions League final, the handball there (with an arm in a much less natural position), and find all of this okay.

    What would your opinion be if an Argentina referee gets six times a big knock-out match (not that this ever happens for England).

    It rarely/never happens both incidents get punished by the referee, not with the many Guardiola teams. Now he conveniently does (Blind even plays the ball). On top of that there is the offside goal, the fabricated VAR images in the first leg, the corner kick that gets blown off.

    The fabricated and doctored VAR images are the definite proof the fix is in, and it ties neatly to the knowledge the big clubs own the competition.

    And oh, the referee was Italian of course (Sergio Gonella 2.0 this dude).

    [​IMG]



    That's the British feel of entitlement from the days of the Empire.
     
  3. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    1. I don't think Sissoko's was deliberate (which used to be the key) as it bounced off his body, whereas I think that Veltman's might well have been (can't be certain).
    2. The threshold has now changed whereby more penalties are given. It doesn't have to be deliberate.

    I'd be pissed off but it's not quite the same. In Europe there is a much smaller pool of referees and many more games.

    It was intended as a joke.
     
    Gregoriak repped this.
  4. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    Just rewatching the highlights, I hadn’t realised Chelsea had 2 goals disallowed as well!
     
    Gregoriak repped this.
  5. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Funnily, I'm watching now Feyenoord vs Young Boys and guess what (Swiss source):



    Two clear and obvious yellows within seconds (without playing the ball).

    .... the commentator also noting the irony.
     
  6. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    1192904458767872001 is not a valid tweet id


    Well done Chelsea, you have injured some important players of your competitor. With card happy referees doing it one way

    Also a hidden message to those players to leave the club as soon as possible.
     
  7. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    comme repped this.
  8. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
  9. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
  10. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    The ideal team for this midweek Champions League round, as selected by France Football.
     
  11. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member+

    Jun 1, 2018
    Ziyech this season with Cruyff-esque numbers: https://fbref.com/en/players/6622454d/Hakim-Ziyech

    1.30 G(-pk)+A per 90 in all competitions. All being the most efficient ball progressor/carrier of the team and the creative center.



    https://www.optasportspro.com/news-...ax-have-refined-their-approach-in-possession/

    Also he is in pace to get 30-35 assists this season.
    He needs to go out of Ajax imo.

     
  12. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #37 carlito86, Nov 28, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2019
    I've said it before but his current form has all the hallmarks of a historic season
    Ballon dor worthy if he hits that 30+ assist mark

    Outrageously gifted and incredible footballer
    His football IQ and decision making is quite something

    Edit
    I'd hate to be a sensationalist caught up in the moment and I know the eredivisie isn't as strong as it once was

    I'm curious to know have you ever seen a higher level of performance in Holland higher than Ziyech this season
    Suarez got almost 50 there (but then he got almost 60 for Barcelona)
    Bergkamp?
    Or do we have to go even further back

    His profile IMO is very much reminiscent of johan Cruyff


    Only thing that goes against is the uefa coefficient of the league
    But then great players have no problem adapting to other leagues
     
    Tropeiro repped this.
  13. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Why? If he wants to win the Champions League then perhaps, but he's now also showing it consistently against the good teams.


    Yesterday once again a German referee team by the way (worse: once again that guy from munich, literally for the third time in seven months!), but of course, for you and your repping collaborator and usual suspect it is all normal procedure and "not quite the same" as the England-Argentina combination.

    There are 26 UEFA elite referees, and you play 12+ Champions League games in a season (including qualification rounds), with 16 matches taking place each midweek.

    For any team it would be strange to get this sort of distribution (say: Schalke 04 getting eight times in 1.5 seasons a dutch ref team in a must win game; or Ukraine getting a handful times a Russian referee, within eight months).
     
  14. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    @PuckVanHeel
    This was addressed to you specifically
    Just forgot to tag you
     
  15. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member+

    Jun 1, 2018
    Well, R9 and Gullit were the most expensive players of their time leaving out of Eredivisie (this should be for something and this is unimaginable in today's Eredivisie), Romario also had a bigger impact on La Liga 93/94 than on Eredivisie perhaps with 30 Non-PK Goals and 14 Assists in 33 Matches... must have other names more than Bergkamp or Suarez too, but the point is not Eredivisie, but the Champions League, even tho Ziyech would never win Champions League with Ajax, he, as Puck said, started to be a big problem for the top teams in Europe.

    He needs/deserve a jump to the EPL for example. Today nobody will be decently valued playing even in let's say Ligue 1, let alone in Eredivisie.

    Arsenal, Chelsea, Tottenham, United, in all of these teams he might take a place in the XI.
     
  16. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Because there's way more recognition/money to be made elsewher than in Ajax.

    His stock won't be as high as this forever, so both him and Ajax should cash in.
     
  17. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member+

    Jun 1, 2018
    Football is not only about 'recognition' and money. Still, he can have a lot of recognition and money playing at Ajax.
     
  18. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    Revisiting this as the season draws to a very messy close. Who knows how everything will end from here.

    Team of the Season in La Liga from The Athletic:

    https://theathletic.co.uk/1759352/2...on-2019-20-messi-casemiro-courtois-berchiche/

    Courtois (Real Madrid); Damian Suarez (Getafe), Felipe (Atletico), Diego Carlos (Sevilla), Berchiche (Athletic Bilbao); Campana (Levante), Casemiro (Real Madrid), Odegaard (Real Sociedad); Messi (Barcelona), Benzema (Real Madrid), Orellana (Eibar)
     
  19. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    PuckVanHeel repped this.
  20. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member+

    Jun 1, 2018
    IMO

    Lewandowski, Neymar, De Bruyne, Ilicic, Messi. No order here.
     
  21. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Koeman and the FA went sleeping again... unlike Amrabat, Gosens is born just across the border, but has a NED father and when he was scouted by several BEL/NED/GER pro clubs he picked the Vitesse academy - the new Bonhof maybe ;)



    De Bruyne has to be there from what I have seen but hard to ignore Liverpool really, the 'historic' achievement, and their collective strength.

    That should be Mané on first place or on second place Van Dijk again. Definitely not the good performing Henderson, who is getting the classic talking up treatment by the British press and was hot favorite before the suspension (cf. Gerrard in some seasons, or Buffon by Italy when he didn't fully deserve it).

    In the bigger games like Man City, Man United, Leicester, Atletico Henderson surely wasn't better than the other Liverpool midfielders, and had also a slow start of the season.

    WhoScored and Sofascore:
    https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/26/Show/England-Liverpool
    https://www.sofascore.com/team/voetbal/liverpool/44

    This is 21st Club at 30 January (founder Omar Chaudhuri is a Brazilian :) ):

    "Oh, and if you're curious: Van Dijk didn't make the cut. He rated as the 52nd-best move since 2014-15, mainly because of how much he cost compared to his market value. However, that value has since risen to €88.2m -- more than the initial fee -- and Van Dijk has become the highest-rated player in the entire dataset."
    https://www.espn.com/soccer/english...4-15and-why-chelseaman-united-have-lost-money


    SkySports most valuable player per team, based on data:

    Manchester City - Kevin de Bruyne
    While Manchester City may eventually relinquish their two-year status as champions, Kevin De Bruyne would still have a fair claim of being this season's outstanding Premier League player. Creatively, he has been in a different stratosphere to the rest of the division, creating the most chances, and being miles ahead for most chances created in open play. The Belgian is also on course to break the record for most assists in a single Premier League campaign, currently held by Thierry Henry with 20 in 2002-03. Five more would do the trick for De Bruyne in City's remaining 10 games.

    De Bruyne in PL this season

    De Bruyne PL rank Next-best player
    Chances created 96 1st 75
    Chances created in open play 72 1st 57
    Big chances created 23 1st 16
    Expected assists 10.78 1st 8.36
    Assists 16 1st 12

    Liverpool - Virgil van Dijk

    Liverpool's defensive resilience has been the foundation for their relentless march towards the Premier League title. At the heart of that has been Virgil van Dijk, ever present this season and, indeed, for the last 80 matches. The Dutchman has helped Liverpool set division-lows for shots on target faced, goals conceded and xG against. Their total of 12 clean sheets is also the most in the Premier League, including 10 in a remarkable 11-game spell between December and February. Van Dijk's defensive contribution is supplemented by his ability on the ball - he has completed more passes than any other player across the division this season (2210).

    Liverpool's PL defensive ranks this season
    Total PL rank
    Goals conceded 21 1st
    xG against 28.1 1st
    Shots-on-target faced per game 2.9 1st
    Clean sheets 12 1st

    https://www.skysports.com/football/...st-valuable-premier-league-player-this-season
     
  22. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #48 carlito86, Apr 23, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2020
    The difference between illicic and the next highest rated is negligible
    0.05 difference

    Other factors also should come into play

    CR should get brownie points for being a established superstar whereas illicic is more of a case of a player in rich vein of form

    CR Is also 3 years his senior and on the wrong side of 30
    A veteran world class performer now and reigning serie A MVP
    This counts at the end of season

    9 MOTM awards in 22 starts at 35 freaking years old(2 more than illcic)
    Also equalling the historic record of Gabriel batistuta(11 games consecutive scoring)

    Personally i feel on his best days he is still capable of conjuring magic (weaving and creating for himself in tight spaces)
    the likes of lewandowski/suarez/mbappe can't and never have been able to produce this


    And on his average a consistent scorer/match winner and not completely useless in the building up of plays
    Still better than a icardi/cavani/aguero etc
     
  23. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member+

    Jun 1, 2018
    Van Dijk has been very good again in the PL, but not so much in the UCL perhaps. Liverpool is hard to analyse, they have the best GK of the world, probably the best CB (Matip, Gomez and Lovren are all above the average too), the best WBs (or the top three), good midfielders with a good engine (Henderson was good too), and three world class forwards.

    I do rate Liverpool and they have been consistent, but they failed in the CL this season, with Adrian conceding two goals more than the expected.
    https://fbref.com/en/matches/d23fe9df/Liverpool-Atletico-Madrid-March-11-2020-Champions-League



    That is my overall impression about Liverpool:

    Adrian, in a significant sample, was below the desired level for a top team and Alisson was the best goalkeeper in the world, so I was predicting that Liverpool without Alisson could have a bad time in key games and that's exactly what happened against Atlético de Madrid.

    Overall I think De Bruyne is better choice. De Bruyne was the top shot creation in the PL this season and was the best City player against Real Madrid at Bernabeu also.

    [​IMG]

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    [​IMG]

    My other choices:

    Messi is carrying Barcelona, a bit below last year in terms of performances and also with bad matches against Real Madrid, but also is the best choice in Spain and the reason why Barcelona is ahead of Real Madrid in La Liga and still in the UCL.

    Neymar. Neymar had a bad start (also off the pitch), but had some winning goals even out of his form (one of them a beauty, a bicycle kick in the last action of the match) then he had a good run in the December and January and early February before suffer another injury, back vs Dortmund (out of his form) to classify PSG with two goals. Elected again the best forward in the French league by L'Equipe, he was the main ball progressor of the Parisian team.

    Ilicic and Lewa the others.
     
  24. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member+

    Jun 1, 2018
    0:05 in what?
     

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