FYI: Looks like DCU will have three guest players for the Spurs match. One likely will be San Jose's Wade Barrett, the other two TBA. Nelsen, Prideaux, Alavanja won't play bec. of injuries.
Can you elaborate on why Wade Barrett? ALso, is there any reason all the articles in today's Post were listed as being written by "Washington POst Staff"?
Re: Re: Players in London Here's the answer to your second question: 'Byline Strike' Begins at Post Guild Calls for 5-Day Action as Contract Talks Hit Standstill Over Union-Membership Rules http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A24850-2002Sep30.html
Hmm... Wade Barrett out of contract in December... goes and plays a friendly in England... hmm... Scouts will be there watching Bobby, Tino and Olsen...hmm... Coincidence? I think not.
Re: Re: Players in London That's interesting. In the continued speculation over MLS players going to ManU, it's been suggested that Pope is one of two, and Barret would be given to DC as a replacement.
Re: Re: Re: Players in London Barrett is out of contract and SJ has cap problems (especially if Donovan returns). I don't think the league would move him to us if he's out of contract. If Pope were sold, we'd have money to acquire a new player with (b/c MLS is willing to consider spending some of the money received on a transfer fee for a replacement). I think Barrett is looking to showcase his talents to try and hook on with a team in Europe in the second half. Also, he's young and healthy. While DCU is missing Nelsen and Prideaux so we could use someone to start on the outside.
Re: Re: Players in London Really? That's surprising considering that neither Bobby nor Olsen could possibly get a UK work permit. I also wonder how much stock scouts would put in a friendly against a Spurs team composed of old guys like Klinnsie and Hoddle.
Olsen could probably get in on appeal, with the notion that he probably would've met the 75% requirement had he not been injured, and the fact that he had previously held one while on loan to Forest. Dave
Re: Re: Re: Players in London English teams have scouted Ed Johnson. I'd say Bobby is a lot closer than Ed J to getting a permit, at least Bobby's been capped. And you never know... Bobbito could find him a nice English gal to marry while he's over there!
Re: Re: Re: Players in London aw $#%&*#, there is an appeals process, for Convey they would consider his play for youth national teams in lieu of the senior national team. For Olsen, as Lanky said, they can (and have, and will) consider his standing with the national team prior to his injuries (20+ appearances in 2 years). Kirovski got one on appeal this year, Lewis got his on appeal...it absolutely is possible A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds
and before you ask, here is an example of a successful appeal based on plyaer injury http://www.chester-city.co.uk/eve_panel.htm
Re: Re: Re: Players in London Could you explain the system. How could Keller, Friedel, Joe-Max, etc. get permits, and not these players?
In order to qualify for a work permit, a player must play in 75% of his nation's senior international matches over the previous 2 years and that team needs to be ranked in the top 75 internationally (hence, problems for Canadians, and perhaps Nelsen). Which leads to things like Juninho being turned down for a work permit. I believe that the permits are for 3 years, but that they must be renewed if you are transferred. As for Keller and Friedel, they get a little slack in the % of games department 'cause there is only 1 keeper on the field at a time (I think Friedel had to go to appeal for this reason). Joe Max is still coasting on his original permit, which expires at the end of the year, and he's not looking good for renewal. If a player is turned down, sponsoring clubs (i.e. whoever is trying to buy the player) can appeal the decision. Basically you need to convince the Home Office that despite not meeting the threshold the player is of sufficient quality to benefit the game. For example, a team can argue that if a player were not injured he would have been a 1st choice national team player (hopefully with a statement to that effect by the national team coach). Or, you could argue that while a player may not have made 75% of appearances - at age 19 he has been capped on one of the top ten national teams in the world, has represented his nation at every age level, consistently for the past 4 years, and has been a starting player in his nation's top league since the age of 17. Is it a gimme? No but certainly has merit, and if you believe the complaints of some lesser known teams, would depend heavily upon which team is applying for the permit.
Nice exlanation, uniteo. I've read a little about Joe-Max. He still hasn't completely recovered from his injury at the WC, although he has put in some time in reserve games. If he doesn't recover in time to play in a sufficient number of first team games, his work permit could be yanked, as you said. I'm not wishing for that to happen, but if it does, I'd love to see him back in the states in a United kit. I think he'd pair well with Tino, although he might not have the stamina to go a full 90. Not at max salary, but for 160 or less, and proving his health, I'd take him.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Players in London I was under the impression that youth caps didn't count, only senior internationals. Lewis got his wp because he played in the world cup, Kirovski's case was helped because he had played in England the previous season. Olsen is debatable, I think he will receive a big boost for his case if he is picked for the El Salvador friendly. Otherwise he might be considered outside the national team picture. Anyway, the point also remains that I am very skeptical about how much the performance of these players vs. an old Tottenham squad will really matter.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Players in London Kirovski has one because he is married to a Portugese woman. He can't win appeal any other way. Most permits are 4 years, and you are allowed 1 transfer on that permit, otherwise you must reapply. As for the players being scouted... isn't it a lot cheaper for European clubs (not just English) to send a scout to London to watch our boys than it is to send them to the US? And many in Europe would probably consider a squad of former Spurs players to be superior in talent to a MLS side. If clubs will scour the earth to find that rare diamond in the rough, why wouldn't they send a scout to watch two stars of our U-20 team. Especially if stories have run linking one of them with Man U and the other to Newcastle.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Players in London They don't count towards the 75%, but it could be taken into account if the player is young enough to have played in youth internationals within the past two years. Last year, Liverpool's permit application for Milan Baros was denied because of the 75% rule. On appeal, LFC argues that he had only recently graduated to the Czech Republic's senior squad (he was 18), and that his performances at that level (he had a few goals in WCQs) demonstrated his ability to play at the EPL level, and it was approved. Dave
Yeah and this is for an experienced international player. From the article "First, he was a quality attacking midfield player having played 81 internationals, scoring 39 goals and had been voted Trinidadian player of the year." Convey and EJ aren't anywhere near that experience with netheir being in double digit caps. Also unlike Baros who was cited somewhere else, neither of these players have really graduated to the senior side or played, let alone scored in a WCQ. I know the example is geared more towards Olsen being eligible and I do think that on appeal he would more than likely be approved but, there is no way Convey or EJ would come close, even on appeal. Also in Olsen's favor is the US's current FIFA ranking which is a consideration when applying for a work permit. It would be less of a consideration for Convey and EJ because of their lack of experience with the senior team.
Look gang, there seems to be a little bit of paranoia right now that we're going to lose all our young talent overseas and the match in London will be full of scouts. Here's the deal--the U20 WC will be full of talent spotters. If nothing else, club scouts will be there to look at the kids from their respective nation. Many of the matches will be televised around the world. I was in Russia on business and caught a bunch of the U20 matches on TV. So Quaranta and Convey and Mapp won't be secrets to anyone. They already aren't--Convey has practiced with Newcastle and the first two played against Leverkusen. Consequently, I think playing a friendly in London against a pickup side has almost no impact on them being picked up. What has far more impact is...their agents. If their agent really pushes hard, he'll find a club willing to look at a video and invite a player over for a trial. This isn't scouting youth soccer here--these are guys who each have an agent. That matters more than U20, a friendly in London or how many goals each one scored in MLS.
...from Trinidad. Look I don't think Olsen would get one now, but if he's back with Nats in a couple months (like around the time of the January transfer window) he'd have a strong case. Likewise with Convey, if he gets a few caps and Arena says he is firmly in the national team plans now that the WC is over... And don't you think...that if Olsen or Convey were to contact The Bruce and let him know that, if they're in his plans, his getting them in the lineup for a few games and sending a message of support might allow them to move to the EPL and practice against that level of competition every day and play against that level of competition every week...don't you think Arena might be inclined to call them up? 'Cause if you don't you haven't paid much attention to how he operates. I don't think either is gonna go this year, Olsen needs to re-gain his form in an environment where he can be reasonably assured of playing time. Convey is about to get the keys to the midfield...next year will be his time to go. But to say that there is 'no way' is just naive in my opinion.
Name one player Bruce has done this for. In case you haven't been paying attention, more MLS players than players in Europe made up the World Cup squad. Playing day in day out is more important to Bruce in most cases, than not, and he has so stated this. I think he could care less where a player plays as long as they play. If he really wanted to get players abroad in order to help the national team explain his handling of Clint Mathis? Here's a guy that was all but delivered to Bayern Munich and Bruce calls him out and some might say ruined Mathis' chance of going abroad. What you are saying and what is reality don't seem to be intersecting. But to say that there is 'no way' is just naive in my opinion. And so is assuming that every player can get a work permit on appeal. I submit South Africa's Benni McCarthy as a guy who couldn't get a work permit to play for Middlesboro despite a much higher international pedigree than any of the players we are talking about. Right now, as things stand, there is no way Convey or EJ could get a work permit. Should Arena start calling these guys up, then things would change, but that s not currently the case
Maybe The Bruce just doesn't like Mathis because he is a Metroscum?! If I were the National Team coach, I'd be very hesitant about bringing that Metrostink into the squad!
As usual Joe, you speak the truth. Agents have a lot to do with guys moving to different teams. I remember in Harkes' book he said that his agent did all the work to get him trials in England before he finally signed with Wednesday. Much of these machinations are spearheaded by the agents, much to the chagrin of managers across Europe because many think it is the agent and not the player who are really making the decision about when and where to move to.