Player Eligibility and Switching National Teams: Case Studies & General Discussion

Discussion in 'FIFA and Tournaments' started by Nico Limmat, Jun 21, 2012.

  1. Philip J. Fry

    Philip J. Fry Member+

    Mexico
    Jun 12, 2013
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    At least the most high profile names lately (Monterrey's Jonathan González and LA Galaxy's Efraín Álvarez).
     
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  2. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
  3. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This will eliminate a lot of waivers:

    Three years residency would be required if a player moved before the age of 10, and five years residency if the move was aged 10 to 18.

    FIFA’s existing rule already requires a five-year residency from the age of 18 if a player wants to acquire a new national eligibility.
     
  4. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    So basically it will help a team like China and maybe also the rich teams in the middle east integrate their young kids faster into their system.

    *Putting on my conspiracy tinfoil hat as I type this:

    Does this help Qatar out in any way?

    And does this Solidify Chine 2030 as a real possibility?
    :D
     
  5. thewitness

    thewitness Member

    Melbourne Victory, Derby County
    Australia
    Jul 10, 2013
    Club:
    Derby County FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    Well the recent CAS decision didn't rule on the eligibilty of Qatar's Bassam Al Rawi, as he didn't play against the complainant UAE. If his claim of Qatari born mother is fake (as UAE suggest they have a copy of her Iraqi birth certificate). This change will make him eligible because he won't have spent the required continous 5 years in Qatar after turning 18, as he spent more than a year of that time playing in Europe. Although by 2022 he will have been back in Qatar for 5 years.
     
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  6. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm thinking the rule change will mostly help African countries with lots of players caught up in European NTs as well as help some of the minnows around the world.

    The only matches that count in this are qualifiers for tournaments, so places like UEFA where they play qualifiers for the Euros and WCQs (all countries play WCQs), but several of the confeds don't have qualifiers that the bigger countries will play in. The US generally only plays qualifiers for World Cup.What constitutes the "finals" of the various Nations Leagues will be up to debate.

    The 3 year wait will mean these players aren't really in the mix for the other fed (or they had a falling out), And the age limit will mean there aren't many players who will fit into the eligible population.
     
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  7. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The proposal:

    https://img.fifa.com/image/upload/gv5axxtvu2aydszqfiw6.pdf

    Lots of things to consider. What I spotted:

    * The period of time resident for a player to be eligible to represent another federation under the same citizenship has been jumped from 2 years consecutively to 5 years in total. That will hurt feds like Puerto Rico or Guam where an American citizen without other connections to the territory could move and play and be eligible 2 years later.

    * Some definitions of how to determine time lived in a federation for eligibility purposes. You have to live 183 days in a territory for the year to count.

    * Eliminates the "5 years after 18" rule for those acquiring a new citizenship if those players spend at least 3 years before age 10 or 5 years from 10 to 18. Eliminates a bunch of waivers that FIFA pretty much always approved. 5 after 18 still remains for others. The move has to be for reasons other than qualifying for the association. Seems to eliminate the "non-football" rationale for those who come for education, etc.

    * A bunch of eligibility rules for change of association (one-time switch):

    + Played in a youth competition and didn't hold nationality and wasn't 21 yet. (Perhaps applies to Diego Fagundez, e.g.)

    +
     
  8. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Continued:

    + Played in A level competitive match, age under 21 when last played, held dual nationality, played no more than 3 competitive or non-official competitions (not sure what that will end up meaning), no NT games for 3 years at A level and hasn't played in FIFA/confed final tourney.

    + New nations rule (like Kosovo) & loss of nationality rule

    + Granted one-time switch but never played for new federation any (official or unofficial) competition (this seems to prevent an Aaron Maund who filed his switch and played for the US in U20 WC from returning to T&T).

    Sure there's plenty of interpretation left and perhaps even a tweak or two before this becomes final.
     
  9. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  10. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So that basically means the rush to cap-tie is over, right?
     
  11. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think it will take a different slant in the future.

    Here's what I assume is the final rule applying to senior tournaments (there are several other clauses that mostly apply to youth tournaments):

    the player:

    i) was fielded in a match in an official competition at “A” international level in any kind of football for his current association;

    ii) at the time of being fielded for his first match in an official competition (at any level) in any kind of football for his current association, he held the nationality of the association which he wishes to represent;

    iii) at the time of being fielded for his last match in an official competition in any kind of football for his current association, he had not turned 21 years old;

    iv) was fielded in no more than three matches at “A” international level in any kind of football for his current association, whether in an official competition or non-official competition;

    v) at least three years have passed since being fielded for his last match at “A” international level in any kind of football for his current association, whether in an official competition or non-official competition; and

    vi) has never participated in any kind of football at “A” international level in the final tournament of the FIFA World Cup or a final tournament of a confederation competition.


    The 3-year wait is a biggie here. A player who might be cap-tied by a WC qualifier, but is then ignored can switch, but the 3 years generally means he isn't that important to the fed that cap-tied him. But they can bring him into friendlies to get him past the 3 match limit.

    That's assuming that's what a "non-official competition" means. I don't think I've see that term in the FIFA Statutes before.

    I expect most of the moves will happen with youth players who gained a 2nd citizenship after being (provisionally) cap-tied and among very marginal players with big countries who got cap-tied in meaningless qualifiers.
     
  12. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    #762 HomietheClown, Sep 22, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2020
    I think it is fair and really do not have many problems with the new rules.

    My only question is does this mean players can play for youth national teams in officially competitions as much as they want and still be called up by other teams as long as they are eligible in every other way?
     
  13. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think that would require a one-time-switch, just as now. The only difference being that, if it's a new citizenship, the player has to be under 21 when he played his last competitive match. Plus a player can un-do a one-time switch if the new federation doesn't play him.
     
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  14. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    I was thinking that was the case but just wanted to confirm it.
     
  15. vancity eagle

    vancity eagle Member+

    Apr 6, 2006
    so nobody is sure if friendlies count as the 3 match limit ?

    If they do that is a step backwards, because you could play an unlimited amount of friendlies before and still make a switch.

    It would make sense if the 3 matches only applies to official matches.
     
  16. dsichiva

    dsichiva Member

    Nov 15, 2013
    Club:
    Norwich City FC
    IMHO, this a step back from the original intention of trying to prevent the case of a national team like Qatar being assembled with South American talent without any tangible connection to the country they are drafted for. Basically, any player that competed in a U17 or U20 WC, are open to being recruited by, say, Qatar league teams and, after a five year period, able to represent the Qatar National Football Team.
    In Mexico, there could be cases like Rodrigo Funes Mori, who played a Conmebol qualifier for the U20 WC in 2011, and Rubens Sambueza, who played in a match of U17 WC in 2001, both of them representing Argentina and without any connection to Mexico in those times, could switch allegiances, and be able to play for "el Tri" now. Even Christian "Chaco" Gimenez, if he wants to stage a comeback, could get a call. (And Panama couldn't do anything against it this time...well, they didn´t the last time also!)
     
  17. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not quite: they'd have to have been eligible for Qatar when they played in said youth tournament.

    So if Almoez Ali had ever played with Sudan's u-17s, and then even with the senior MNT for a game or two, he'd have been fine to switch...but Qatar can't just randomly poach South American players from the junior WCs.
     
  18. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The new rules include provisions for youth caps without holding the citizenship yet:

    the player:

    i) was fielded in a match in an official competition at any level (with the exception of “A” international level) in any kind of football for his current association;
    ii) at the time of being fielded for his first match in an official competition in any kind of football for his current association, he did not hold the nationality of the association which he wishes to represent;
    iii) at the time of being fielded for his last match in an official competition in any kind of football for his current association, he had not turned 21 years old; and
    iv) meets any of the requirements provided in article 6 or article 7. [Article 7 is the provision for players that acquire a new nationality. 5 years living in the territory after turning 18 is all it takes.]


    https://img.fifa.com/image/upload/gv5axxtvu2aydszqfiw6.pdf
     
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  19. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In theory, Art. 7.2.a should stop outright poaching:

    2. A player who seeks to rely upon par. d ii) must:

    a) demonstrate that the move to the territory of the association was not for the purpose of participating for its representative teams...


    In practice - yeah, that's a loophole just waiting to happen. "No, no, we didn't bring Edilson Jr. and Carlos Huamán here for football! No, they just got scholarships to the Qatar this-has-nothing-to-do-with-football Academy!" :D
     
  20. dsichiva

    dsichiva Member

    Nov 15, 2013
    Club:
    Norwich City FC
    Nothing that could prevent that any player in any edition of the FIFA U20 World Cup (most likely Brazilians) could, just after the tournament, be signed for the Qatar Stars League, and, in five years time, be able to switch allegiances.
     
  21. Gibraldo

    Gibraldo Member+

    radnicki nis
    Serbia
    Nov 17, 2005
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    i heard today that aymen barkok of eintracht frankfurt has switch from germany to morocco and played his 1st international in october
     
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  22. Juniorcbr

    Juniorcbr Member

    Oct 11, 2013
    Düsseldorf, Germany
    Nat'l Team:
    Poland
    #772 Juniorcbr, Nov 20, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020
    The:
    could turn out problematic for lots of players who may want to switch, since many players who feature for the U-21 squads are often times over 21 years of age yet still eligible for U-21's. Seems to be the case for Munir in his failed second attempt to switch to Morocco.

    Happy though with the rule change as it negates the effects of competitions such as the "Nations League", which I argued would only lead to increases in NT's locking down more dual-national players down with a single cap.
     
  23. Juniorcbr

    Juniorcbr Member

    Oct 11, 2013
    Düsseldorf, Germany
    Nat'l Team:
    Poland
    #773 Juniorcbr, Nov 20, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020
    Correction, should have written, "some of the effects of additional cap-typing competitions" rather than stating "negates the effects of competitions".
     
  24. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Brazilian born Catarina Macario was granted approval to play for the US women's NT three months after gaining US citizenship.
    https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/20...elder-catarina-macario-to-represent-the-uswnt

    A lot of aspects in this story point to how different the women's game is from the men's game. Notably, her family moved to the US nine years ago for footballing reasons. She has never played a professional game yet she will receive a callup to the most important NT in woman's soccer.
     
  25. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Did the CBF put any effort into recruiting her?
     

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