Player Eligibility and Switching National Teams: Case Studies & General Discussion

Magic? WTF are you talking about, catalonia produces some good footballers yes but is not because of la masia. Argentina and brasil produce a lot of footballers, some of the best in the world and in history and it has nothing to do with football academies.

Japan has a couple of world class players yes but it is because they got lucky, some countries produce great players every other year. Some just get lucky once in a while and it has to do about the culture of the sport in that country not about academies.

You know how much money Qatar has spend hiring the best coaches, trainers, teachers in the world to try and compete and still they suck at it.

This whole debate started because you said that barca had a lot to do with messi being the player he is and that he was made there and not in argentina. If la masia is so good why they cant produce more messi like players.

If la massia is so good why they have to buy Song and were after thiago silva and now are after neymar.

And PR doesnt have a football culture nor history, we hardly play the game here. So is not about not having academies either.

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Hi,

Puskas ( Hungary to Spain)
Jose Santamaria ( Uruguay to Spain)
Pizzi ( Argentina to Spain)
Donato ( Brazil to Spain)
Marcos Senna ( Brazil to Spain)
Alfredo Di Stefano ( Argentina to Spain)
Catanha ( Brazil To Spain)
Christiansen ( Denmark to Spain)
Thiago Alcantara ( Brazil to Spain)
Eulogio Martinez ( Paraguay to Spain)
Amorebieta ( Spain to Venezuela)
Altafini (Brazil to Italy)
Schiaffino ( Uruguay to Italy) - World Champion 1950
Luisito Monti ( Argentina to Italy) - World Champion 1934
Raimondo Orsi ( Argentina to Italy) - World Champion 1934

I dont remember more.

Regards,

Yoni

 

The way it used to be is that a NT was always composed mainly of players from the most numerous ethnia in that country. So the French team was most Gauls (even if Arabs and Africans had lived in France for generations); and the USA team was mainly Anglo-Saxons. Same for everybody else.

This is why football became so big, for that tight association between the sport and "race." Football was, by far, the most tribal of sports. That made it awesome, since a match between your country and your neighbor was basically an ersatz war to prove racial supremacy.

But times have changed. Now, what made football so attractive, has become a ticking time bomb. As we're reminded by the ultranationalistic crowds we see at international matches from time to time. Tribalism is like a nuke in an integrated world, where people travel all the time and have kids here and there, with diverse possible nationalities.

So nationalities have become diluted in real life. And, by extension, they are becoming diluted on the football field. Which is, at best, a mixed blessing.

 

Japan made big changes to their football structure 20 years ago and it is now paying off. It's nothing to do with luck, so expect to see plenty more Japanese talent in the years and decades to come.

 

Per Johannsson: "I went back when I was 17 for high school [at the IMG Academy] in Bradenton, Fla. It was one of the best years of my life and I can't wait to go back occasionally, hopefully to get some minutes with the national team."

Wikipedia: "Jóhannsson started his youth career at his local club, Fjölnir, in Reykjavik, Iceland. In 2005, he moved to Breiðablik for one season, heading back to Fjölnir the following year. He then spent the 2007–08 school year playing in the U.S. Soccer Development Academy for the IMG Academy squad based in Bradenton, Florida.[4]Where he was coached by coach Tom Durkin."

So not exactly zero input from US Soccer.

 

When I say luck I mean a golden generation that comes along once in a while at the same time. Kind of like spain is having right now, they always produced great players but they were lucky to have xavi, iniesta, villa, puyol, pique all at the same time to make a great run. They will keep producing great players but nothing like they just had.
Japan is a good football nation but they need some luck like any football nation not named brasil to have talents come along at the same time.


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And how much should the Swiss FA pay to other nations for using their genetical material whenever a player from a diferent origin succeeds in its system, and afterwards ends playing for their NT ?

After all, even if they were born in Switzerland, it wasn`t a 100 % Swiss genetic material the one that made it possible, but a foreign one. (the real concern for Switzerland shouldn't be how many players are lost to this situation, but their incappability to produce players of a 100 % Swiss origin, at the same rate as those with links to other countries and places, and why they end up choosing the other country instead of playing for Switzerland)

 

Three things about FIFA's policy on switching nationality.

1) It's overwhelmingly in favor of the players.
2) It more often favors small countries over big countries. For the most part, it's the large countries that have many more youth players then can possibly be used in their national team.
3) Countries with particularly restrictive nationality laws like Switzerland will have it tougher.

 

Please explain, in order to understand your post.

In my case, what I see is someone mad because, his nations system incurs in costs for the development of players, but forgets the fact that those players have never felt Switzerland as their natural home, reasons why at the end, they decide to play for whom they believe identifies them much better. Next, he forgets the fact that those players also spent a very long time of their lives, and the cost of whatever their families had to spend (without any help from the Swiss FA in order to achieve their excellence in the swiss system, whom also happens to use those players for their own benefit, and also forgets that with them, they recently earned a WC at the youth level, which gives Switzerland a lot of prestige.

When someone starts asking for money in return for the cost incurred on the development of those players, not only devalues its own system, but it also devalues whatever they have achieved with them, as at the end, for them, all it means is that everything is reduced to the most simple thing, which is money. As you want to to put the issue at the level of the most simplest thing, well lets just talk about simplicity, and lets not even talk about people or players, as they are lots more complex and as people or whatever they are, don`t become important. So lets just refer to them as the most simplest thing, which are their genes (which are, what I used in my past post).

For me, the Swiss FA, is in debt with those players and their nations of origin, so before starting to ask others to pay them for whatever they invested in them, they must first, pay to those players and their families or nations, the cost that they individually had to spend in order to see their offspring succeed, and give back to them whatever they achieved with them, in that same process, as it only meant money for them and nothing else ......

Besides as I also said at the end of my past post, the Swiss FA, should first try to find the reasons why those players afterwards decide to play for others instead of them, as there sure is a very big reason, of their suposed lack of loyalty to the FA, that suposedly "gave them everything". (something is sure missing here)

 

Of course it has relationship to racism. (post edited, as it is not 100 % about it)
Although I never implied that they are not Swiss, based on their genetic material. The expression of genetics don't imply any nationality, as it is the most basic issue of any living thing.
But in the correct form of talking about racism. To deny the existence of multiple razes among human beings, it is to deny the human beings as what they are and about its natural diferences.
In this case no one is saying that one raze is better than the other. But, there is something in it, that the Swiss system can`t provide for itself, so they get it from elsewhere.

Exactly.
Reasons why I tried to explain that if we are to talk about simple things, then we must limit our conversation to simple aspects, as if we start talking about people, then the issue gets as complex as the complexity of what people are.

Once again, we think similarly here.

 

Australia kept having this same problem developing players for them to then go on and represent other nations. Joey Didilica, Ante Seric & Josip Simunic (Croatia), Tony Dorigo (England), Ivan Ergic & Sasa Ilic-the goalkeeper (Serbia) and its debatable whether to include Christian Vieri (Italy) in that list because all though he played his junior club football in Australia he didn't have much to do with the national Youth set up.
Anyway after getting sick of this the Australia Institute of Sport now makes all the youth players sign contracts that state that they will repay the full costs of their scholarships if they go on to represent another country. Although this still hasn't stopped Aussie players switching countries with Milos Degenek (Serbia), Apostolos Giannou (Greece), Ersan Gulum (Turkey). Although these guys are still a chance of coming back to the Australian Set-up as they are all yet to play full internationals for their new countries.
I don't mind players switching nationalities especially when its just not a fast tracked visa nationality switch. But i do think that the country they are leaving deserve some compensation for the money they invested into these players.

 

I don't think you should disparage jus soli since jus sanguinis is much more easily abused. With jus soli, at least there is the presupposition that someone born in a country is 99% likely to be raised there. Indeed, I can only think of Aron Johannsson as a case where jus soli was the sole cause. Most of the time it's jus sanguinis applied on children or even grandchildren born and raised in a different country. Switzerland is an exceptional case in that they only extend jus sanguinis to the first generation and even that is restricted quite a bit.

 

Any player who is up to 21 years of age, can file the one time switch through FIFA, no matter at what youth level he has played for a NT.

If the player has played partially or a full game at "A" international level (adults), despite being less than 21 years old, he loses its right to switch Associations. In other words, as long as he has only played at youth levels (no matter if it was friendly or official games), he can file the switch through FIFA, which has to be accepted by FIFA and during the procedure, he can`t play for any NT.
Once switched to another association, can`t switch again (to a new association or to his former one, as well).

 

The strictness of citizenship laws has only a loose effect on acquiring good dual national players. The United States only extends jus sanguinis to the first generation as well, so this isn't some sort of huge advantage for the US, as compared to some European countries which have very loose jus sanguinis laws. There are two big differences between the United States and Switzerland:

1. The United States maintains an enormous permanent military presence in the country that happens to be one of the top couple of producers of talent in the world. Switzerland does not.
2. The United States is in a confederation where their national team can make the World Cup in any given cycle. Switzerland is not.

If not for their military presence in Germany, the US would not have gotten any of the German-born children of service members. If not for their consistent presence in the World Cup, the US would not have gotten Aron Johannsson and there's a possibility they might not have gotten Mix Diskerud either, though the latter is disputable. Almost every single one of the US national team's recent acquisitions of players raised abroad can be directly attributed to those two historical and geographic accidents. Citizenship laws are at most loosely related.

Disclaimer: This isn't meant to be an endorsement or criticism of players playing for countries in which they were not raised, or of the countries that benefit from it. I just find it interesting that so much of where a player plays has very little to do with simple citizenship policies.

 

When he played the last 7 minutes of that friendly game against Tunisia, for Switzerland, as he came in as a late substitution, he was still 21 years old, so the 21 year old age limit, still stands (only that now, it seems that FIFA, extended all through the 21st year of age of the player, the lapse-time for making the switch).

......Oh yes, you are completely right though, in relation to the type of match, it must be a non-friendly FIFA sanctioned competition match, in order to lose the possibility to switch between NT's.

 

Of course it doesn`t.
It`s almost like one FA asking for money to another FA, for the suposed money invested in the development of players (which was the reason, I posted it, with a funny smiley at the end of it), when actually if anyone really made a very big investment in the development of them, it was the same players, with their time, their families money, personal sacrifices and with a big part of their life (how can you actually give this issue a price ?, unless we start talking about slavery, where this price can be zero (o)).

For the purposes of marketing of the players, even if one player switches from one NT to another new one, they keep on belonging to the club where they were formed and developed (not to the FA were they are associated to), only with a new nationality. And for future trades of that player the club where he developed himself will always get its percentage of transactions, due to precisely this issue.