Player Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'St. Louis City SC' started by Sport Billy, Jul 20, 2020.

  1. fortcollins

    fortcollins Member+

    St. Louis City SC
    Apr 12, 2006
    Fort Collins
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Jaziel Orozco has been signed to a new contract through the 2028-2029 season, with a club option for the 2029-2030 season.
     
  2. HouseofCards

    HouseofCards Member+

    Nov 26, 2012
    The only players Wray can sign, the ones we have or the ones he has worked with....I kid. This is a good move. Jazi has been terrific this season, and it is the right move to extend him!
     
  3. HouseofCards

    HouseofCards Member+

    Nov 26, 2012


    Doesn’t look like we ever had a shot at Cuypers, so we were hustling spinning our wheels to say, “See we tried!”
     
  4. HouseofCards

    HouseofCards Member+

    Nov 26, 2012
    Matan will be official tomorrow it looks like:



    Funny that there is a whole podcast titled off of the smoke deal, and that appears to be a thing of the past!
     
  5. HouseofCards

    HouseofCards Member+

    Nov 26, 2012


    I’m underwhelmed with this because it’s not a 9, and it means that Matan, is definitely a bench player. So we start Hartel and this guy as our DPs in the attacking mid positions, to create chances for Becher?

    I’m calling my shot, the only way this makes sense is if Burki is gone and you’re still adding a DP9. I could get behind that!
     
  6. fortcollins

    fortcollins Member+

    St. Louis City SC
    Apr 12, 2006
    Fort Collins
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    For this season, clubs that have used <$1 million of the additional GAM can revise the roster construction model through September 2. CITY could transfer out a U22 player and shift the model to three DPs and three U22s, rather than two DPs and four U22s.
     
  7. HouseofCards

    HouseofCards Member+

    Nov 26, 2012
    We have been in the 3 DP model all season. For the first part is was Hartel, Burki and Cordova, and now it is Hartel, Burki, and Holse.
     
  8. HouseofCards

    HouseofCards Member+

    Nov 26, 2012


    I don’t like this, but we also have to live in reality. He is the wrong side of 30 and if he wants to go home, there’s not much we will be able to do to stop it.

    However, a DP replacement must be signed this window, no Klauss repeat is allowed.
     
  9. HouseofCards

    HouseofCards Member+

    Nov 26, 2012
  10. fortcollins

    fortcollins Member+

    St. Louis City SC
    Apr 12, 2006
    Fort Collins
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Carlo Holse Introductory Press Conference video. Corey Wray's comments during this conference are very important.

     
  11. HouseofCards

    HouseofCards Member+

    Nov 26, 2012


    Maybe surprisingly, based on some of my previous comments, I'm going to be much less alarmist about the Hartel news. I think we have to understand where we are in the food chain globally, and also understand that the player has a say in this process too, all of these things being out of control of the club and Wray. It sucks, and it is further proof of why the calendar shift is necessary. This kind of business is typically conducted in the offseason for most clubs, which makes it more painful.

    What is under Wray's control though is the response. He has to have learned from the Klauss debacle and he has to have things lined up in behind this. Also, the fee needs to reflect his increase in value and the years left on his contract. I dare say, the fee should be lined up with the value we got Holse for.

    Control the controllables, this sucks, but if Wray does his job well, we better get used to this kind of thing.
     
    Misha of IL repped this.
  12. fortcollins

    fortcollins Member+

    St. Louis City SC
    Apr 12, 2006
    Fort Collins
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I can't see what's under your link, but I'm guessing it's something by either Matt Baker or Justin Horneker. (If you would screenshot, rather than link, it would be possible to see what you post, and it would still be here long after the dead bird app is finally gone.)

    Wray was placed in a box by the prior regime and is also trapped by this season's MLS rules. It sounds as though the MLS will fix these rules next season, but my read is that CITY has someone in mind right now, and that decision is now-or-never. (If CITY were named "Miami," however . . .). The only way left for him to build a team is to move DP players.

    Hartel is an exceptional player. On every level, he adds to a team. He is a true leader. If CITY was able to buy his contract down with GAM or buy another DP slot, he certainly would be staying. This isn't anybody's desire. It's necessary, though, to move from the prior regime's model to a functioning team. Matan certainly turned heads with his first appearance. If Holse does the same, and a new player fits the obvious need up top, CITY may not just be a team flirting with the playoff line. And the USOC semis are not that far away. And a chance to qualify for Leagues Cup competition next year would bring money and prestige. And the goofy sprint season will make every match crucial.

    On another note, I don't see Klauss' departure as a debacle. That was addition by subtraction. He certainly was at odds with Carnell and had a hand in his firing. And the things the rest of the team has said about the locker room recently suggests that the team is in a much better place than it was when Klauss was on the roster. Klauss had a quick start, but very little production afterward, and he was injured almost constantly. That has carried over to his time with the LA Galaxy, and may help explain why the Galaxy are preparing to rent Chucky Lozano and all his baggage for the rest of this season.
     
    SetPeace repped this.
  13. HouseofCards

    HouseofCards Member+

    Nov 26, 2012
    Based on everything that is out there, this is what Hartel wanted. And the changing of the rules to allow more spending and more roster flexibility is not good news for CITY, it is bad news. The gap between the haves and have nots will only get bigger, and we are on the have nots side of that equation.

    In order for us to come out of this window at least as good as we entered it, Holse is going to have to hit the ground running and be as good as Hartel. I hope he gets there, but I don't know. But, I think Holse was signed knowing that Hartel was probably on the way out.

    As for the Klauss debacle, it has nothing to do with what Klauss has or has not done since he left, and everything to do with how we reacted. Wray had no replacement in mind, so went out and overspent on a DP 9 in Cordova, switched the entire roster construction model for him and gave up $1m in GAM (will be $2m in wasted GAM if he doesn't bring in another DP this window), and then sent him packing 4 months later. Chalk that one up to the debacle category. And here we are in August and we still haven't replaced Klauss and are still rolling with only Becher as a bona fide professional 9.

    I think the thing that gets me the most at the moment is Wray's victory lap he took, praising CKB and Diego, and all this stuff about "See we do care." Wray needs to do a press conference, not a softball radio interview now and explain the plan, or at the very least assure everyone there is a plan.

    Look, as I said earlier, this kind of thing is going to happen. This all could turn out for the best if it's part of the master plan. If Wray has contingenicies in place for this exact type of thing, we could improve the squad. Don't give me another Cordova, give me a legit DP striker.
     
  14. HouseofCards

    HouseofCards Member+

    Nov 26, 2012
    I'll keep this comment here and not the coaching/front office thread because it is tied to the Hartel discussion...

    For those claiming, "See Lutz wasn't the problem," I disagree, and that comes squarely from news this week that Latte Lath was loaned out after his failed $22m to Atlanta. They loaned him and get to utilize his DP slot. Lutz couldn't loan out and reclaim JGR's $800k U22 spot. Lutz did some good things, made some bad signings (you can say the same for Wray at this early stage of his roster development), but Wray understands the MLS roster rules and how to better manipulate them to build a squad than Lutz ever did.

    But the winner of the worst Sporting Director moves go to the Hackworth/Gigliani duo for resigning Yaro and putting Burki on a DP contract.
     
    Misha of IL repped this.
  15. HouseofCards

    HouseofCards Member+

    Nov 26, 2012


    I don't know what to make of reports that Hartel might be proving too expensive for Hannover. He is our top player, in his prime, with 2 years left on his contract. Those factors, even if Hartel is pushing for the move, don't add up to transferring on the cheap. On top of that, Hannover just received a fee for close to what it would take to buy Hartel. Stick to your guns Wray, don't cave and let Hartel go cheap. You have all the leverage.
     
  16. HouseofCards

    HouseofCards Member+

    Nov 26, 2012
    If reports today are to be believed, Hartel is leaving for 1m Euros. I don't know what the personal situation is there, but that is horrible business from CITY. But, Wray ultimately isn't going to be judged on letting Hartel go or the fee he gets for him, he will be judged on the replacement that comes in this window. If you don't bring in a DP replacement this window, there is no justification for selling Hartel on the cheap.

    I also think it would be very beneficial for Wray to get out in public. He was quick to be out there for the Holse signing, you can't just answer questions when things are good, you need to give fans something.

    Lastly, letting Hartel go now, with where we are in the table, really makes it a playoff or bust year for Wray. If we fought all this way to get back into the playoff picture, and then you sell the best player and we drop out, the blame will be placed squarely at the feet of the front office.
     
  17. HouseofCards

    HouseofCards Member+

    Nov 26, 2012
    Summer 2024 was a big summer for us bringing players in. We brought in DP Hartel, U22 JGR, TAM Teuchert, Horn, and Becher. Last man standing is arguably the "worst" profile of all of them, Becher.
     
  18. fortcollins

    fortcollins Member+

    St. Louis City SC
    Apr 12, 2006
    Fort Collins
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Matt Baker and Tom Timmerman are relaying a report from a Hanover reporter that the transfer of Marcel Hartel to Hanover is final. The transfer fee has been reported as below 1 million Euros, likely making it in the $1.0 million range.
     
  19. HouseofCards

    HouseofCards Member+

    Nov 26, 2012
    Ownership is going to be the ones footing the bill, they are going to pass the cost of this absolute failure, utter disaster on to us the fans.
     
  20. fortcollins

    fortcollins Member+

    St. Louis City SC
    Apr 12, 2006
    Fort Collins
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The only ways this makes sense are:
    • Hartel pulled a Chucky Lozano and CITY looked at where holding onto that contract got San Diego
    • This trade is part of a multi-team deal and CITY will get something else in exchange (such as Hanover paying part of an incoming player's salary or releasing rights to an incoming player)
    • There are significant residuals and CITY wanted to spread the money out over time
     
  21. fortcollins

    fortcollins Member+

    St. Louis City SC
    Apr 12, 2006
    Fort Collins
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Or maybe there was a bigger issue.

    More from Matt Baker:

    Screenshot Bluesky Baker Hartel 1.jpg

    Screenshot Bluesky Baker Hartel 2.jpg
     
    SetPeace repped this.
  22. HouseofCards

    HouseofCards Member+

    Nov 26, 2012
    I'm willing to hold off on my final verdict until the end of the window. If we finish the season with Becher top of the depth chart at the striker position, then this window is a colossal failure.
     
  23. HouseofCards

    HouseofCards Member+

    Nov 26, 2012
    Trying to be positive here...at least we don't have to watch horribly floated corner kicks anymore.
     
  24. HouseofCards

    HouseofCards Member+

    Nov 26, 2012
    https://www.stlcitysc.com/news/st-l...arcel-hartel-to-2-bundesliga-side-hannover-96

    City make it official before Hannover does. You have to wonder if they were getting frustrated with Hannover dragging their feet a bit.

    Also, based on this release, I don't understand why something similar to this wasn't put out last week. Wray would do really well to better control the narratives that fly around. He doesn't have to give away how the entire sausage is made, but reassuring fans that he is in control of the situation would go a long way.

    Lastly, Hartel's statement felt shallow and vague to me, not sincere and heartfelt.
     
  25. fortcollins

    fortcollins Member+

    St. Louis City SC
    Apr 12, 2006
    Fort Collins
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    After FC Cincinnati's premature leak involving Neymar and the mess that followed when he withdrew, I don't blame clubs exercising caution. Remember, Hartel still hadn't done the fitness evaluation or signed with Hannover until yesterday, so it wasn't a done deal.
     

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