News: Player Development, TFC & CMNT

Discussion in 'Toronto FC' started by Kingston, Jul 22, 2016.

  1. Kingston

    Kingston Member+

    Oct 6, 2005
    It has taken longer than I'd liked it to have, but TFC is finally starting to look like a Canadian team. They've got Canadian talent across the age range of active players. I'm in no way advocating for an all Canadian team or anything, but if you look at the club now, we've got a bunch of guys getting regular starting time and not looking out of place doing it. For example, we could see a line up that includes Johnson, Osorio, Ricketts, Hamilton, Chapman, Babouli, and Morgan. Clearly a line up featuring all of them would not be our strongest but you wouldn't think it odd to any of them on the game sheet on a given day.
     
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  2. Polygong

    Polygong Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 8, 2007
    Toronto
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Basically I'd like to see TFC/ Impact/ VWFC all eventually being as Canadian as the US clubs are American.
     
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  3. ArteEtLabore

    ArteEtLabore Member

    Dec 16, 2006
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Sorry, but I disagree with the whole TFC needs to be more Canadian thing. TFC needs to win. If they can do that with Canadian players, so be it. But TFC is not the CMNT's farm team. Their commitment needs to be to win games; not to give opportunities to Canadians.

    Plus, the fan base tends to overvalue Canadian players. The only thing that I've seen from Mo Babouli is that he makes a nice pass about once a game. Other than that he's useless. I don't know why he starts games. Osorio now seems to finish like Chad Barrett. He's shown promise, but if he wasn't Canadian, I doubt that the fan base would have as much patience with him. The only Canadian who deserves to be in the starting lineup is Will "the last goal he ever scored won TFC the cup" Johnson. I want to see TFC/Van/MTL be as Canadian as the US teams are American when the talent levels are comparable. But we're nowhere near that.
     
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  4. Deleted User x

    Deleted User x Member+

    Mar 21, 2006
    That's an excellent post.

    Sure, it's good to have a Canadian core on the team, but Canadian players can develop anywhere just as well. Cyle Larin for example. TFC's objective should be to win. Period. Not be a training ground for Canadian talent. Also, TFC's manager and his staff are American, as is the G.M. and the captain and most of the players. Let's just win.
     
  5. crazypete13

    crazypete13 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 7, 2007
    A walk from BMO
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    I don't think winning, and playing with Canadians are mutually exclusive.
     
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  6. Deleted User x

    Deleted User x Member+

    Mar 21, 2006
    They aren't.

    Just get the best players for the job.
     
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  7. Polygong

    Polygong Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 8, 2007
    Toronto
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    I think everyone agrees with that. It's just nice to see that they're winning with lots of Canadians on board.

    Part of the promise with MLS having come to Canada is to help build Canadian talent and a stronger national side. I know many of you don't care about that, despite being both soccer fans and Canadians, but many do. It's nice to see that promise showing progress.
     
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  8. TOareaFan

    TOareaFan Member+

    Jun 19, 2008
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    It would be very nice...if they were....but at W6-L7-D6 and the 13th highest point level in the league....I don't think they are.

    It is quite possible to care about the growth/progress/performance of the CMNT without feeling that TFC have a duty to play Canadians first.
     
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  9. Deleted User x

    Deleted User x Member+

    Mar 21, 2006
    Exactly.
     
  10. legendofzola

    legendofzola Member

    Jun 4, 2006
    Cape Breton
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    I agree with you. There should be a Canadian flavor.
     
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  11. BearcatSA

    BearcatSA Member

    Jan 15, 2008
    Canada
    I've a mixed opinion of this. On the one hand, I believe the point about some tending to overvalue Canadian players and some of their performances. But on the other hand, I've seen too many American journeymen coming through the squad ranks and really adding little of value. All things being close to equal, I'd rather see Canadian players filling those roles.
     
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  12. Kingston

    Kingston Member+

    Oct 6, 2005
    Duty, no. I will say, however, that as a TFC money paying customer (as opposed to just a fan) I want to see Canadians on the field. Not to the point of putting inferior Canadians in the place of better foreigners but certainly to the point where being Canadian wins the tie break. Also to the point of bringing in Tosaint Ricketts and not Random Foreigner when scouting overseas for additional talent (again assuming a suitable Canadian is available, not just a Canadian).

    With the Academy system TFC has in place there will presumably be a lot of young Canadians coming up through the ranks. It shouldn't therefore be hard for TFC to both win games and field suitably talented Canadians. The point of my original post was not to demand that they field Canadians but to point out my happiness that they are.
     
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  13. TOareaFan

    TOareaFan Member+

    Jun 19, 2008
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Not sure what distinction you are trying to make here...or why you feel the need to make it.
     
  14. Kingston

    Kingston Member+

    Oct 6, 2005
    Just indicating that a portion (since I suspect I'm not alone) of the people who financially support the team want Canadian players. So it's not a duty or a moral obligation but it is good business practice.

    (And, no, my personal financial contribution does not float or sink the team. :) )
     
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  15. TOareaFan

    TOareaFan Member+

    Jun 19, 2008
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    likley offset by an equal number of people who want only the best and in their minds "the best" does not include Canadians (generally).....i can't be the only person with Italian friends who would never go to TFC matches until Gio arrived...am I? (not a shot at Italian fans/friends at all...just using that one as an easy example...but lots of people from lots of backgrounds do not consider footy good unless it comes from back home or elsewhere in the football world...elsewhere being not here...was at a stag about 8 weeks ago, bumped into an Evertonian that I had not seen in +/- 15 years.....asked him where he sits at TFC matches (he's always been football daft)...his answer "nowhere, I am not paying for that shite").

    The vast majority of TFC supporters (I suspect) fall in the mushy middle on this....they neither care nor worry about the passports of the players they are watching and just want the club to field a competitive team within the rules/limitations that the MLS rules allow.
     
  16. crazypete13

    crazypete13 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 7, 2007
    A walk from BMO
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    I think the reality is that considering the structure of MLS (salary cap, status in world footy, international slots etc.) it makes sense to both develop players via the academy - and bring in cost-effective Canadians/domestics. I have no issue with bringing in international players, nor do I want the team to solely bring in a player just because of their passport.

    However, considering the nature of MLS - having a player count as a domestic and be a contributing member of the squad - any player who becomes a permanent resident of Canada counts as a domestic - it makes sense to use our international slots wisely for starting XI types and DPs - and also use TFC II to have draft picks and other foreign players-in-development qualify for domestic status.

    To me - the passport matters less than what the cost is to both: A) have them in the squad - salary, international slot and B) to make them a good fit for the system.
     
  17. scarborotfcfan

    May 26, 2008
    I agree with this sentiment. It isn't priority one to develop Canadian talent but at the same time, if TFC is deciding between two relatively equally talented players and one is Canadian, I would want the Canadian one. Seeing as I cheer for both TFC and the CMNT, Canadian players need somewhere to play and it's a bonus if they are already playing together in the same league and even better if they are on the same team and developing chemistry together. The random mish-mash of low-level European teams and guys not playing at all has not been a recipe for success for our MNT.
     
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  18. ArteEtLabore

    ArteEtLabore Member

    Dec 16, 2006
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Admins: we've moved away from the original topic of this thread with this side topic. Would it be worth giving this side topic its own thread?
     
  19. ArteEtLabore

    ArteEtLabore Member

    Dec 16, 2006
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    I agree with the sentiment that if you have two relatively equal players, that TFC should play the Canadian one (case in point, I had figured that if they were going to put in a completely inexperienced keeper, they should have gone with Q over Bono). But I suspect that the "relatively equal" isn't always easy to determine. As a casual fan, it's easy to say that two players are equal in talent, but for those managing the team there are a lot of other variables that come in to play outside of the talent level such as salary, age, long term plans for the player, the intangibles they bring on and off the field, etc.
     
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  20. crazypete13

    crazypete13 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 7, 2007
    A walk from BMO
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Done.
     
  21. Polygong

    Polygong Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 8, 2007
    Toronto
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    At the end of the day, it's not about TFC making a point of using Canadian players, it's about TFC making a point of having a well run academy so that when evaluating players with whom to build the best possible team, a lot of the necessary talent is found in Canadian players.

    I think that is the original point of this conversation, that it's great that it's being demonstrated that the academy is turning out some good talent that TFC can use, for the sake of winning and not for the sake of quotas.
     
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  22. RobinVanRobben

    May 1, 2014
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    "One of our own,
    he is one of our own.
    <insert name here>!
    he is one of our own"
     
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  23. TOareaFan

    TOareaFan Member+

    Jun 19, 2008
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Sometimes MLS does not get credit for good, perhaps subtle, changes they make in their rules.

    When they made the change to make home grown players count as zero against the salary cap they gave all teams a great incentive to grow their own. I think Canadian players were (and will be for a while) the biggest beneficiaries of this because their supply is more limited than US players and this great incentive now to the 3 Canadian MLS clubs to fill roles with home grown players will free up salary cap room for bigger/better talent at the top end of the roster.

    The bar bell effect on the cap is what might ultimately see homegrown canadians become hugely important to the 3 Canadian teams in MLS
     
  24. Polygong

    Polygong Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 8, 2007
    Toronto
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    What qualifies as home grown? Specifically MLS Academies, any Canadian development club (eg. League 1 Ont, PLSQ etc), or anywhere in Canada/US?
     

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