Platini va Maradons vs Zico

Discussion in 'Soccer History' started by Gregoire, Apr 6, 2011.

  1. axxess mundi

    axxess mundi Member

    Feb 4, 2013
    When most of you think of Zico what era do you judge him by?
    The pre 81 era or post 82 era?

    Maradona was the superior of the 3.
     
  2. Alexander88

    Alexander88 Member

    Jan 26, 2013
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Maradona
    Platini
    -
    -
    -
    -Zico
     
  3. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Alexander, you need to give reasons why you rate Zico so low?
     
  4. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    Zico best years were from 78-85
     
  5. axxess mundi

    axxess mundi Member

    Feb 4, 2013
    I see it as 74-84
     
  6. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    OK to be very precised 76-84 hahaha
     
  7. xiehao74

    xiehao74 New Member

    Nov 29, 2007
    A latest video in youtube is about the best play maker of 1980's. It is decided among Maradona, Zico, and Platini.

     
  8. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    77-80: Zico> Maradona >Platini
    80-84: Maradona >= Zico > Platini
    84-89: Maradona> Platini > Zico
     
  9. Santista1962

    Santista1962 Red Card

    Sep 9, 2011
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Pre-83 era.

    Maradona was never able to beat Zico in any match, be it Udinense vs Napoli, Flamengo vs Boca Juniors, much less Brazil vs Argentina.

    Claudio Gentile said it best: between the two, Zico is far better. He was a team player and he knew how to read the game. Whereas Maradona, as long as you don't give him any space to make sharp turns he is easy to deal with.

    I have no view on Platini in this.
     
  10. Once

    Once Member+

    Apr 16, 2011
    'Maradona was more individualistic, and practically all of their play was channelled through him.' Claudio Gentile explains. 'Zico, in contrast, was more of a team player. He brought his team-mates into play, so I'd consider him to be a more complete player. But Maradona was more decisive, because when he'd spring into attack, he could win a match all by himself. That was shown in the 1986 World Cup, which he won all by himself.'
     
  11. Jaweirdo

    Jaweirdo Member+

    Aug 19, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    interesting can both you guys cite your sources
     
  12. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    I think Santista made his point" PRE 83 " why mentioning WC86?

    Up to 81, I am sure Zico was regarded as the best player by most people.
    82-84 were sharing between Maradona and Zico but I think Maradona got a bit an edge here.
    WC86 was like an Emperor SEAL to "confirm" Maradona up close to Pele as 2nd best
     
  13. Once

    Once Member+

    Apr 16, 2011
    Since you are so analytical about his post, did you notice it is not a quote of Gentile's words, but more like an interpretation? Anyways, Im just quoting Gentile on his personal view comparing them. No likey? Here is some more, Gentile talking about it recently:
    'Zico would seek/find support in his teammates, Maradona would glue the ball to his foot and challenge. One was vertical and the other association. Zico was not easier, but required less physical effort. You had to be careful when the ball could get to him. With Maradona there was tension because he would challenge/confront you, insult you, throw himself around... Zico was quieter. He shook hands, chatted, a gentleman. Today I'm friends with Zico, something I will never be with Maradona.' Lets not lose sight of the bolded part...

    You are free to believe anything you want. But Vegan did provide extensive proof that that was not the case in some other Zico vs Maradona type of thread. You might also want to check South American Player of the Year up to 1981, while you are at it. Looking at stats and results you may not comprehend why. The material provided by Vegan I spoke about before might be of help with this.
     
  14. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    I think it was you who needed a check:
    1976 Elías FIGUEROA (Chi) Internacional-RS (Bra)
    1977 Arthur Antunes Coimbra ZICO (Bra) Flamengo (Bra)
    1978 Mario KEMPES (Arg) Valencia (Spa)
    1979 Diego MARADONA (Arg) Argentinos Juniors (Arg)
    1980 Diego MARADONA (Arg) Boca Juniors (Arg)
    1981 Arthur Antunes Coimbra ZICO (Bra) Flamengo (Bra) 1982 Arthur Antunes Coimbra ZICO (Bra) Flamengo (Bra)

    From 76 to 82:
    Zico 3 times as BEST > (Maradona 2)
    Zico 2times as 2nd best > Maradona 1)
    So overall Zico 3times #1, 2times #2 and 5times TOP10 > Maradona (2times #1 1 time #2 and 4times TOP10)
     
  15. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    Check the Zico/Maradona thread again to refresh your memory.
     
  16. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    While this is true for the Venezuelan source of El Mundo, it slightly differs with the Argentinian source of El Grafico. The difference: El Mundo used to use around 18-20 journalists from South and Central America, while El Grafico used to use over 100 journalists from North America, Central and South America. Here was one example in 1981:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Below is the reporters that voted (136 total).

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Above to the right is the top 3 collecting their awards in 1980.

    Also addressed in this thread: https://www.bigsoccer.com/community/...a-the-second-best-player-ever.1784415/page-21

    Add the opinion of many European players/experts from that time and the case becomes even stronger. But this is something that's already been established in the thread above: why continue to go in circles?
     
  17. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    That's what he states nowadays, but back then it was very clear what the sentiments were like: July 1982, Italy had just won the WC and Gentile was interviewed by the magazine of Goles and this is what he said (in Spanish):[​IMG]

    He states at one point: "Zico was less dangerous than Maradona, but he had to be taken care of in the same way..."

    Those are the key words that say it all. He's blunt in his words.
     
    Once and United_xxx repped this.
  18. United_xxx

    United_xxx Member

    Aug 10, 2004
    Thailand
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Great info from Vegan and great thread...
    BTW, do you have the record of Maradona's freekick goals?
     
  19. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    Thanks. About the free-kicks: I'm getting close to obtaining that info through all the sources that I've been able to collect. All I need is to review the Argentinos Jrs. era: I have obtained good info from that period, but need to double check with some other sources before I can confirm it. The rest of the clubs and NT info I believe I have already, but I need to review it before I can create the thread of him.
     
  20. Once

    Once Member+

    Apr 16, 2011
    Thanks Vegan for clarifying. Great info like always :thumbsup:
     
  21. Once

    Once Member+

    Apr 16, 2011
    So, it became up to 1982 all the sudden...
    This is what we said (first you and then me):
    So, back to what we were discussing.
    We have Maradona SAPotY in 1979 (Zico 5th place) and in 1980 again (Zico 2nd place). Notice that this happens even though Maradona wins nothing with Argentinos Juniors while Zico wins titles with Flamengo both years.
    Then comes 1981 when Zico wins the Libertadores and Intercontinental (plus the Carioca), scoring lots of goals as usual and with his memorable performance against Liverpool. He takes the SAPotY award with Maradona as runner up. Yet, in the other poll Vegan showed, it is Maradona the one chosen as best of 1981 as well. Plus, you can take a look at those articles and material I was mentioning (that Vegan was kind enough to share with us in another thread discussing Zico x Maradona). They do not discuss stats or awards there, but skills and capabilities. Really interesting stuff.
    Seems to me that as soon as Maradona rose to stellar level he took the spotlight. Even when at the time he was in his late teens and very early 20s, and on the other side you had a guy like Zico in his mid and late 20s with several titles on his back.
     
  22. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    1980 wasn't a landslide year for Maradona or anyone else. Guerin Sportivo asked several South American and European journalists and managers about the 1980 year (almost an equal amount of South Americans were asked). This was the outcome.

    Rummenigge 22 votes
    Kaltz 20
    Maradona 17
    Krol 15
    Zico 13
    Antognoni, Schuster and Pezzey 11
    Arconada, Hrubesch and Gentile 8
    Kempes and Passarella 7
    Stielike, Shilton and Viv Anderson 6

    Safe to say that the voting population was very divided. Maybe that some continent had a clear preference and another a different taste but taken together there wasn't a 'undisputed champion', to say it in boxing terms.

    Probably Guerin Sportivo would come to a different outcome if they had asked slightly different managers or journalists.

    And after 1980 the favour shifted to Zico for three years (1981, 1982 and 1983 - in 1983 Zico ended behind his countrymen Falcao though), with also Platini sliding in the picture again (after a few so-so years).
    https://www.bigsoccer.com/community/threads/messi-vs-football-records.1983902/page-16#post-27579254
     
    John Baldessari repped this.
  23. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    However, Guerin Sportivo their poll was topped by Maradona in 1979.

    It seems they discontinued the poll in the mid 80s or so.
     
  24. Once

    Once Member+

    Apr 16, 2011
    Only guys with European Championship title on their backs surpassed Maradona in 1980...
     
  25. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    I only posted to against some claim that Maradona was best player (>Zico from 77-82)- based on SOUTH AMERICA POY and I proved otherwise.

    ALl I said was in that particular period (76-82) Zico was seen as best player (more often than Maradona) and that was normal as Maradona was younger (his peak form carried on long after that until 90)

    I am not so crazy to base SOLELY on some sources or journalists as most often they were BIASED by the trophies achievement i.e. for Rummenigge and Keegan (in Europe leagues)
    To most "pro" football fan at time, there were only TWO BEST players: Maradona and Zico
     

Share This Page