Reports of it's demise are apparently premature. John McGill, one of Bart Wolstein's partners, is aquiring land in Summit County and intends to pursue the original bid. As I've said elsewhere, there are a couple things people forget about this deal: it was never a Horowitz-type of ego driven "I wanna own a franchise" kind of a thing. Wolstein's company, Heritage Development, which was always about more than just him, put together a business plan that, in their judgement, made financial sense. It was no different than any other real estate deal for them, just like a shopping mall or an office complex. Their model said they could turn a profit. Mr Wolstein's death didn't change that. And the fact is that the territory fee that they paid MLS (reportedly a million dollars) was not out of Wolstein's pocket - it was from his development partnership, Heritage Development. Now the bid itself is still as dependent on public money as it ever was, and Akron/Summit County is still as flat broke as they ever were and none of those dynamics have changed. But Heritage always felt that there was a sales pitch here based not on soccer but on offices, shopping and restaurants which, combined with an outdoor entertainment venue, spells jobs in an area which has been taking a beating economically since about 1965. Who knows whether it is a go? If I had to bet, I'd still say it's a long shot, but it always was. http://www.cleveland.com/search/index.ssf?/base/summit/1088501445213210.xml?ncounty_summit
It would have been nice if Wolstein has left a big chunk of cash in his will to go towards building the stadium and starting the franchise. I have no idea how much he might have had to give, but its a nice thought. I'm just wondering how in the world they plan on financing the stadium. I think Heritage Development needs to step up from the $20 mil. and go about 50/50 with the local government financing.
Clever! Actually, I was thinking the thread might get a wider audience in the other forum, but I'll leave that to the mod's discretion.
Um, we really don't care. This is here because it would influence whether or not the Crew would have an inter-state rival. We really couldn't give two figs about the rest of the folks clamoring for expansion news. You could always take the link and post it in some other forum. Do it for the Gipper.
I thought that what killed this deal originally was the insane amount of money that Wolstein and pals were trying to bilk the community for. IIRC, they wanted $129 mil for a stadium -- however, now they are down to a measly $110 mil. My question is "Why in the hell does their stadium cost so much??" Correct me if I'm wrong, but CCS was built for the paltry sum of $30 mil. Just for laughs, I found this article Euro 2004 Stadium Info Note that in the range that Cleveland is looking at, there are two stadiums in Portugal --- Benfica's (66k seats)and FC Porto's (51k seats). So, since they are only planning on having 25k in seats, WHAT IN THE HELL IS THE MONEY GOING TO BE SPENT ON?? If they get that price to a reasonable figure (cut it by at least half), they might have takers. Otherwise, there is no way in hell this scenario will float.
From what I've read, they want a complex like The Home Depot Center. That cost $150 million and covers 125 acres. Now it sounds like they want a 100 acre complex in Cleveland for $110 million. Sounds like they will be similar. I expect nothing will get done until the price gets down to around $60 million, if that ever happens.
And I was thinking that you could go piss up a rope. Who in the hell cares what your sorry ass "thinks"?
Probably because the Cleveland group is looking to build more than just a glorified high school football stadium.
Hey, wow, like that is SOOOO cutting. Jeez, I mean, that REALLY hurts. Man oh man, you are cruel. Freakin imbecile. Go diddle yourself.
In addition to what Bill Archer said, we also didn't have the 2-3 years to build that other cities are getting. Groundbreaking was in August 1998, first game was 5/15/99. Not exactly the best amount of time. And that winter (January 1999) wasn't exactly friendly. So yeah, take your (I won't even call that an insult cause if it was, it was so weak) elsewhere.
I'm not sure why you're glorifying the original post with a defence. It's ignorance spoke for itself.
Leaving imbecilic trolls in the rear view mirror, there's an absolutely blockbuster piece in Street and Smiths by our old pal Jamie Trecker. He says, among other things, that MLS will expand by two for 3005, which is no surprise, but also says that the league will relocate both San Jose and Kansas City, the former due to attendance problems and the latter because of stadium issues. Some other tidbits from Trecker Pere: ... As for the second expansion team, Seattle is the leading candidate, with even Garber saying that the city “absolutely has an inside track.” ... In San Jose, we are struggling to activate what is supposed to be a very strong soccer market to embrace the Quakes,” (Garber) said. “We have been trying for nine years, and now the area has the most successful team on field over the past four years. We want them to support us. We will give them the resources by putting a good team on the field and being in the community, and if it doesn’t work, we’ll do what we have to do.” The Wizards, Garber said, have a “challenging relationship” with Arrowhead Stadium. “No matter how well we do, we are lost in that large stadium,” he said. “And we have not been able to create a path to a soccer-specific stadium....Kansas City spokesman Justin Gorman would not comment on the potential for a move. ...In Salt Lake City. Dave Checketts, former president of Madison Square Garden, has paid $1 million for the rights to bring an MLS team to the city, and sources say he’s making a big push to get a team sooner, rather than later.In fact, sources say, Checketts could be ready in the next couple of weeks to announce a financing deal for a soccer-specific stadium. “We really believe that Checketts is one of the great sports operators,” Garber said. “If we can convince a guy like this, who has 25 years of experience, to build soccer in Salt Lake, a market that is analogous to Columbus with a lot of grass roots, we’re on the right track...” ..."Houston is a future MLS city,” said Garber, adding that MLS has a great relationship with the Texans and their general manager, Jamey Rootes, the former general manager of the MLS Columbus Crew. There’s also been plenty of speculation that Houston could be the new home of the Wizards, considering Hunt’s longtime family and business ties in the state. ...Rochester, N.Y. The A-League Rhinos have been a perennial candidate to join MLS, but still have a few problems to be ironed out. One is the fact thatthe team has too many player contracts that pay more than MLS is prepared to commit to,... “This is a market we believe will be in MLS, and it is not if but when.” .... Cleveland. With the sudden death of investor Bert “Bart” Wolstein last month, that expansion scenario — which revolved around a stadium financed partly by the city — also appears to be off the table for now. So let's make the early betting line this way: Chivas to LA, Seattle as new team number two. Kansas City relocates to Houston and San Jose moves to Salt Lake City.
I was hoping for something a little sooner. [insert smilie face here] Do you have a subscription to this paper, Bill, or do you get it at your local newsstand? I was looking at getting a subscription once, but I think it was quite expensive at the time. Now that I'm independently wealthy, maybe it's worth another look.
I saw that story yestreday morning, but everybody was saying how Trecker is this and that. How he's a total panty-waste. How he's got no reliability. That he's full of lies and nothing he says is worth the paper its printed on. I figure he's either a)following his reputation and just spouting sh!t, ot b)going to be a victim of "the boy who cried wolf". Either way, nice little story, but until I see it on the field, I'm just not going to call anything 100% I think Bill's ideas are fairly decent (SJ to SLC and KC to Houston w/ Chivas LA and Seattle being the new teams). However.... why does SLC deserve to inherit one of the better teams in the league? I would think there is a lot more market potential there than could be utilized in SLC. Besides, it seems there is some truth to SJ and little to the KC rumors. So let's assume on SJ moves. I say you get Chivas LA and SLC for 2005. SJ moves to Houston and gets bought by Club America and gets renamed. Baby Jesus can't throw a fit because he's heading overseas anyways, so the former quakes then just become a regular team, except that CA will bring in some MexiStars (like MetroStars, as in, overhyped and totally suck) to help bolster the attendance. Then to keep up the silly traditions of East/West, KC moves to the East so that each conference has 6 teams. The Mexican invasion has thus prevailed, bring in both Chivas and Club America in one fell swoop. You end up with 2 new teams (SLC & Chivas) and 1 relocated team. You tap into the Mexi market that MLS is so desperate to hit (assuming their plans work for the first time ever). The league has 3 new investors to help spread the costs. Then I think you see Rochester and Seattle in 2006 or 2007. However, by that time, Cleveland might actually have some things moving in their favor. Knowing MLS, the 2006 expansion won't happen and will be post-poned until 2007 or 2008. At that point, I think you might see the league increase by 4 teams, rather than just 2. I say this because at that point, there should be 4 SSS running in the league, maybe 5. The revenues should be improving and attracting more and more investors. If we do increase by 4, I would like to see Seattle, Cleveland, Rochester, and Philly. Then we could give KC back to the West. OK, so I'm being ambitious, but I'm still clinging to the last remnants of sleep as my morning coffee kicks in.