PK Loophole

Discussion in 'Referee' started by DualYellow, Sep 5, 2007.

  1. DualYellow

    DualYellow Member

    Sep 5, 2006
    OK, according to Law 14 "the ball is in play when it is kicked and moves forward."

    Hypothetical Situation: Player taps ball forward but slightly to the side just hard enough to move it forward so that a teammate can run upon it and shoot. This would be a legal move, although not one I would recommend to maintain advantage, correct?
     
  2. Teso Dos Bichos

    Teso Dos Bichos Red Card

    Sep 2, 2004
    Purged by RvN
  3. MasterShake29

    MasterShake29 Member+

    Oct 28, 2001
    Jersey City, NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yep, that's legal, if not really smart.
     
  4. intechpc

    intechpc Member

    Sep 22, 2005
    West Bend, WI
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is one of those moves that if you catch the other team off guard, you look like a genius but if they're ready for it, you've really messed up big.
     
  5. DualYellow

    DualYellow Member

    Sep 5, 2006
    So if the same attempt was made but the ball travelled slightly backwards instead, then the kick is to be retaken since the ball has not been put into play according to the law? I would say retake but I tend to doubt myself and want to clear this up so I don't doubt myself once I get on the field. ;)
     
  6. rippingood

    rippingood Member

    Feb 13, 2004
    LosAngeles
    Club:
    Liverpool LFC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  7. DualYellow

    DualYellow Member

    Sep 5, 2006
    awesome, thanks for the reference.
     
  8. Gary V

    Gary V Member+

    Feb 4, 2003
    SE Mich.
    How could this be more clear?
    The ball didn't enter the goal (because it went backward) so it's an IFK.

    That doesn't make good Law, though. This is in effect changing a restart while the ball remains out of play.
     
  9. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    See the 2005 U.S. Soccer Hall of Fame Game for this idea working correctly, though given that it was two inductees (Balboa and Clavijo) pulling it off, I don't think anyone on DC was trying that hard to stop them. ;)
     
  10. rippingood

    rippingood Member

    Feb 13, 2004
    LosAngeles
    Club:
    Liverpool LFC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Changing the restart with the ball out of play is what can be clarified so that it is "good law".

    Current:
    Procedure
    • the player taking the penalty kicks the ball forward
    • he does not play the ball a second time until it has touched another player
    • the ball is in play when it is kicked and moves forward

    Proposed Clarification:
    Procedure
    • Procedure
    • the player taking the penalty kicks the ball forward
    • he does not play the ball a second time until it has touched another player
    • the ball is in play when it is kicked

    With this wording, the ball is in play when kicked. If it's kicked backwards, it violates the first bullet (just as if it's played twice, it violates the second bullet).

    The current phrase is much the kick-off procedure in the LOTG; in that case, if the ball is not kicked forward, the kick-off is re-taken. Very similar wording + different outcomes = not clear.
     
  11. DadOf6

    DadOf6 Member

    Jul 4, 2005
    Taylorsville, UT
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Isn't that what happens on foul throw-ins?
     
  12. intechpc

    intechpc Member

    Sep 22, 2005
    West Bend, WI
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think technically in the case of the foul throw, the ball has entered the field of play and therefore is in play but the player commits an infraction. However, you can also argue that many players get away with handling on throw-ins since many times the ball has broken the plane of the touch line before it is released. ;)
     
  13. NHRef

    NHRef Member+

    Apr 7, 2004
    Southern NH
    When I teach the Grade 8 class I repeat over and over and over about you can't change the restart if the ball is out of play. Then we get to Law 14 and I say "well there is one exception" Since there are several test questions on PK's that don't go by the book we make sure to beat the matrix into their head.
     
  14. PVancouver

    PVancouver Member

    Apr 1, 1999
    This makes no sense to me. If the kick goes backwards the PK should be retaken.
     
  15. USSF REF

    USSF REF Member

    Red Bull NY
    United States
    Nov 6, 2005
    Rochester, NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It does seem that way doesn't it? But the IFAB has decided otherwise.
     
  16. chrisrun

    chrisrun Member

    Jan 13, 2004
    Orlando, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think the clearest thing to do is allow the ball to travel backwards on PKs and kickoffs. Then we don't have these issues any more. Why does the ball have to travel forward on these restarts anyway? I'm sure there is some historical reason, but it just seems unnecessary now. Let the ball be in play when it is kicked and moves.
     
  17. NHRef

    NHRef Member+

    Apr 7, 2004
    Southern NH
    I agree it doesn't really make sense, but it is what it is. Personally I'd like to see a PK be able to go in any direction, then it makes it just like every other DFK restart due to a foul, just from a fixed spot.
     
  18. fuschia

    fuschia Member

    Jan 28, 2005
    On Kickoff and PK, the players of the defending team must be on one side of the field in relation to the ball. Therefore allowing the ball to move back is unfair.

    The same applies to goal kicks. Ball has to leave the penalty area before it can be played again. Otherwise, attacking team gets an unfair chance at the ball.

    Whereas on other restarts, defending players can be in any direction around the restart point.
     
  19. vilafria

    vilafria Member+

    Jun 2, 2005
    I never seen it done :eek: Does the loophole stand when it comes to match ending pks shoot-outs ?? I think not.
     
  20. BigGuy

    BigGuy Red Card

    Apr 12, 2007
    I have seen it happen many times. The Long Island Rough Riders under Alphone Mondelo when they were in the USISL before the MLS started used to do it. I don't remember him doing it when he coached the Metrostars. They used to pass to a player named Steve Cadet who would enter the area after the first touch then finsih it after the keeper commited to a side.

    Mondelo tried it against my team when he was the coach with Hota Bavaria it worked then to :) He still will lose against us we had more horses then he did.
     
  21. intechpc

    intechpc Member

    Sep 22, 2005
    West Bend, WI
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You are correct, you cannot do this on a PK in "extended time". The USSF ATR is very specific that on PK's in extra time, no player other than the keeper may participate in play after the kick is taken. This is obviously the same for kicks during "kicks from the mark" to determine the winner after a draw.
     
  22. PVancouver

    PVancouver Member

    Apr 1, 1999
    Why? Only the attacking team has to be outside the penalty area on a goal kick, not the defending team.
     
  23. DadOf6

    DadOf6 Member

    Jul 4, 2005
    Taylorsville, UT
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Imagine the throw being made one yard outside of the touchline. The throw does not start behind the thrower's head. The ball has not been released and it has not entered play.

    The restart now goes the other way.
     
  24. Gary V

    Gary V Member+

    Feb 4, 2003
    SE Mich.
    Um, if someone in Kicks From The Penalty Mark kicks the ball backward, I wonder about the sanity of that person. How would they be thinking they might score if they don't send it in the direction of the net? There's no followups or second-touches in KFTPM.

    The same would apply to games where time was extended in the half in order to complete a penalty kick. Only 1 touch by the attackers is allowed.
     
  25. MasterShake29

    MasterShake29 Member+

    Oct 28, 2001
    Jersey City, NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If the ball is touched by anyone within the goal area, it's a re-do.
     

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