Pirlo Out? At What Point? The Manager Thread...

Discussion in 'Juventus' started by Dante, Mar 23, 2021.

  1. juventino13

    juventino13 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2005
    Caribbean
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Pirlo: Juventus have failed to find an identity under Andrea Pirlo and that’s hardly surprising considering he used 34 different line-ups in his debut season.

    Complete disaster of a coach.
     
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  2. juveeer

    juveeer Member+

    Aug 3, 2006
    Pirlo has not been great but our front office is more to blame for this disaster of a season than he is.

    It is pretty clear we backed the wrong horse in the Bepe v Paratici clash.
     
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  3. SF19

    SF19 Member+

    Jun 8, 2013
    He needed to work with the u23 team first, as was planned. They rushed him into the job, but Sarri wasn't a good fit at Juventus either.
     
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  4. juveeer

    juveeer Member+

    Aug 3, 2006
    Our current management is 0 for 2 on managerial hires.
     
  5. SF19

    SF19 Member+

    Jun 8, 2013
    He could turnout to be one of the best managers one day, but on the evidence so far he has taken on too much too soon.
     
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  6. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #56 falvo, May 9, 2021
    Last edited: May 9, 2021
    They are saying on RAI , Juve could miss out on $200 million for not making the CL.

    Also , that Zidane will probably replace Pirlo.

    New coach will probably get rid of Buffon ,Szczęsny Chiellini, Bonucci, Dybala and CR7...
     
  7. juventino13

    juventino13 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2005
    Caribbean
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    I would have quit by now if I were Pirlo, I would be embarrassed to face anyone.
     
  8. scirea6

    scirea6 Member+

    Sep 20, 2007
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    The upper management should be even more embarrassed. We all knew Pirlo was a hail Mary appointment that we hoped would somehow work out.

    Unsurprisingly, it didn't. This disaster, after the mistake of appointing Sarri, is simply unacceptable and people need to be sacked for it. That's how we do things at this club. Thanks for the success, but it's over and now we move on.
     
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  9. IcEWoLF

    IcEWoLF Member+

    Juventus
    Jul 15, 2014
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We knew with Pirlo we weren’t going to win the scudetto. But this is plain embarrassing…like holy crap. If we were going to tank we should have kept Sarri for another year…at least with him this team did a bit better.

    Please bring Allegri back. It’s going to be a rebuild phase, but bringing the right coach will help. Or give me Zidane.
     
  10. Mean Machine

    Mean Machine Member+

    May 23, 2018
    I would love Allegri back but Zidane would be good too.
     
  11. NicktheGreek

    NicktheGreek Member+

    Feb 15, 2001
    Can't dispute the fact that Pirlo wasn't properly "aged in he barrel" before taking over and Sarri actually had a pretty good season, but wasn't the fit the FO wanted.so what now? No matter who coaches the A team Pirlo need
    Why would Zidane want to leave Madrid and take a big step down to a broken Juve? Didn't he jump ship when the scandal relegated the team?
     
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  12. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #62 falvo, May 10, 2021
    Last edited: May 10, 2021
    In reality, its the management's fault. Sarri at least won but anyway, sooner or later Juve will have lost after a 9 year run.

    Hiring a manager with no experience in coaching even a youth team was never going to work. I doubt he eployed many tactics or game plans as the palyers carried the team up until now.


    Not sure if Zidane would be a good fit or not but that is what the anouncer on RAI said.
     
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  13. SF19

    SF19 Member+

    Jun 8, 2013
    Zidane shared some doubts about whether he would continue at Madrid, but I can only imagine it's a tact to get the things he wants from Perez be it signings, direction of the club, etc.
     
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  14. gumbacicc

    gumbacicc Member+

    Dec 7, 2004
    USA
    Why would Zizou want to come to Juve at this point? It's a club in disarray. He's better off elsewhere, if not remaining at Madrid, who are in a far better position than us at the moment.
     
  15. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Here is NY Times soccer correspondent, Rory Smith's Friday email discussing Pirlo and the state of Juventus. Enjoy,

    The Fall Guy


    [​IMG]

    Someone will pay for the fall of Juventus, and right now Andrea Pirlo is in the crosshairs.Ciro De Luca/Reuters

    [​IMG]

    By Rory Smith


    The jokes almost wrote themselves. Last summer, Juventus announced that it had installed Andrea Pirlo as coach of its under-23 team. It was a thoroughly sensible idea: the perfect place for a beloved former player to cut his teeth in a new phase of his career, the ideal spot for him to take his first job in management.

    The same, at the time, could not be said for what came next. Ten days after getting that job, Pirlo was handed another, this time as coach of Juventus’s first team, the one that included not only several of his former teammates, but Cristiano Ronaldo, too. And so the jokes came, cheap and quick and irresistible. Pirlo must have really impressed in those eight days! No wonder he got the job: He’d never lost a game!


    The official explanation was only a little more convincing. “Today’s choice is based on the belief that Pirlo has what it takes to lead an expert and talented squad to new successes,” a Juventus club statement read. There seemed to be only three feasible, overlapping explanations, and none of them reflected especially well on the team’s hierarchy.

    One — the most likely — was that it had decided to fire his predecessor, Maurizio Sarri, with little time to find a replacement who was not already in-house. Pirlo just so happened to be in the right place at the right time.


    The second explanation held that Pirlo was a place-holder, willing to do the job for a year or two, until a more suitable candidate became available.

    And third was the thought that, after nine Serie A titles in nine years, Juventus had come to the conclusion that it could employ anyone it wanted — the least talented of the Backstreet Boys, a friendly spaniel, or maybe, at a push, Sam Allardyce — and still win the league.


    Whatever the club’s thinking, its folly was ruthlessly exposed over the subsequent nine months. It is not just that Juventus has ceded its title, or even that it has surrendered its dynasty so meekly. It is that the decline has been far steeper, far quicker and far more consequential than the club could possibly have imagined.


    On Saturday, Juventus hosts Inter Milan — the team coached by its former manager, Antonio Conte, and overseen by its former technical director, Giuseppe Marotta, and that has swept to the championship this year — knowing that it must win if it is to retain any realistic ambition of playing in the Champions League next season. Otherwise, barring a collapse from one or more of Atalanta, A.C. Milan or Napoli, the ignominy of the Europa League beckons in Turin.

    [​IMG]

    Juventus currently lies in fifth place in Italy, just outside the Champions League places for next season.Alessandro Di Marco/EPA, via Shutterstock


    The likelihood, of course, is that much of the blame for that will be placed squarely on Pirlo’s shoulders. Already, his future is the subject of intense scrutiny in the Italian news media: There have been various reports in the last few weeks of emergency talks inside the club to establish whether he will be allowed to fulfill the second and final year of his contract.

    Outside, too, he seems to have been identified as the source of the problem. This week, a handful of Juventus fans confronted — though that is not quite the right word for what was, basically, quite a congenial conversation — the veteran goalkeeper Gianluigi Buffon outside a training facility the club was using and asked if it was true that the squad had given up on its rookie manager. Buffon assured the supporters it was not true.


    Regardless, Pirlo is experienced enough to know this is how it works. The manager is always the fall guy, and particularly in these circumstances. Juventus had won nine consecutive titles with experienced managers at its helm. The year it appointed a neophyte, it collapsed. It is hardly outrageous to believe those two things might be connected.

    For all the significance they are afforded, for all that we hang on their every word and elevate the best of them to guru status, managers do not make quite as much difference as we think. There have been several academic studies on how much of an impact they have on results. The book “Soccernomics” held that managers account for, at most, 8 percent of a team’s performance. “The Numbers Game” had it slightly higher. Neither estimate puts a manager’s significance close to the importance of money, or luck.


    That is not to say managers do not matter. Elite soccer, in particular, is a sport of the very finest of margins; often, all that separates great triumph from bitter disappointment is a momentary lapse of concentration here or a little extra fitness there. A single, controllable factor that affects 8 percent of the outcome matters a great deal.


    [​IMG]

    Inter Milan, led by the former Juventus manager Antonio Conte, won its first Italian title in a decade this season.Matteo Bazzi/EPA, via Shutterstock


    Pirlo would, on the surface, seem to be proof of that. Juventus had what appeared to be an unassailable advantage over its domestic competition for almost a decade, and yet when it traded an experienced manager for an inexperienced one, it slumped not by a few points, but from first to, potentially, fifth. Eight percent is the difference, it turns out, between Serie A titles and the Europa League.

    A little deeper, though, the picture is more complex. The reason that soccer tends to react to disappointment by changing the manager is that it offers the illusion of the simple solution: Fix that 8 percent and everything else will follow. In the case of Juventus — in every case, for that matter — it does not quite work like that.


    The club that Pirlo inherited was not quite the smooth-running machine it appeared. His appointment itself was proof of that: He was hired on short notice because the incumbent, Sarri, had proved stylistically unsuited to the squad. Pirlo, from the start, appeared equally ill matched: The soccer he wanted to play did not seem to be the sort of soccer that fit the players at his disposal.

    [​IMG]

    Pirlo didn’t create the problems at Juventus, but he didn’t fix them, either.Alberto Lingria/Reuters


    That sort of disjointed, disconnected thinking has infected almost everything Juventus has done for some time, perhaps since it last reached the Champions League final in 2017. The signing of Ronaldo — a hugely expensive indulgence, even if his performances preclude its being called a mistake — is the most glaring example. But there are many more.

    Juventus has spent the past few years desperately trying to offload whomever it can in order to reduce its salary commitments and to comply with European soccer’s financial regulations, often relying on curious swaps to do so: João Cancelo for Manchester City’s Danilo, Miralem Pjanic for Barcelona’s Arthur. It has left many on the squad feeling unwanted and uninvested.


    At one point, Juventus lent Gonzalo Higuaín to A.C. Milan and then Chelsea, only to welcome him back when Sarri was appointed. It then spent a summer trying to offload the playmaker Paulo Dybala, arguably its most gifted attacker other than Ronaldo, in order to pay Higuaín’s wages.

    Dybala stayed and, eventually, Higuaín left. Last season, Juventus was forced to leave Emre Can off its Champions League squad — without offering him any warning — because its playing resources were so bloated. He departed soon after, along with a clutch of other exiled veterans.


    Even the signing of Ronaldo — a commercial success and, broadly, a sporting one, too — has hardly been an exercise in joined-up thinking. At this stage in his career, Ronaldo is effectively a pared-down attacking spearhead; he cannot, or at least does not, run and press as he might have done a decade ago. And yet Juventus has presented him with two coaches whose approaches work only if attackers do just that: first Sarri, and now Pirlo.

    [​IMG]

    Will Cristiano Ronaldo accompany Juventus into the Europa League next season?Marco Bertorello/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images


    It is easy to see why Juventus would want to assume that Pirlo is the source of all of its troubles, to decide that changing the coach, swapping out the rookie for a more garlanded name, has the air of a panacea. It was a gamble, and it backfired. He wasn’t good enough, not yet. It was too much, too soon.

    That might all be true, but it is not the root of the problem. Pirlo is not a cause; he is a symptom. The issue, for Juventus, is not with the man who got the job, it is with the people who gave it to him, whose expertise runs so deep that they took a coach with eight days’ experience and threw him into one of the most challenging jobs in Europe, and expected it all to work out fine.


    A coach, after all, makes only 8 percent of the difference. The other 92 percent comes from the structure and the organization and the thinking behind the manager. Perhaps, as Juventus confronts its demise, the blame should be apportioned on similar lines.
     
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  16. cizko

    cizko Member

    Juve
    Italy
    Jul 14, 2017
    Good article. It all went downhill when club sacked Marotta and Allegri. Perhaps Paratici and co. overestimated their own abilities to succesfully run the club.
     
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  17. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I agree here. It took van der Sar and Overmars two seasons to get their feet on the ground and figure out how to run Ajax.
     
  18. usnroach

    usnroach Member+

    Jul 5, 2009
    SoCal
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Paratici has been the Sporting Director for two years. Does that mean there is still hope?
     
  19. scirea6

    scirea6 Member+

    Sep 20, 2007
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    At this point, I think it's more likely that we've discovered the reason why Paratici was subordinate to Marotta for so many years.
     
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  20. gumbacicc

    gumbacicc Member+

    Dec 7, 2004
    USA
    I'm not sure that Allegri would have worked miracles with this club. The change from Marotta to Paratici was the key moment. He needs to go.
     
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  21. NicktheGreek

    NicktheGreek Member+

    Feb 15, 2001
    A fine piece of writing and testament to Rory Smith's grasp of the facts.
     
  22. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Zidan gave his notice already that he will be leaving Real.

    I have a feeling he will replace Pirlo and Allegri will go there.
     
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  23. IcEWoLF

    IcEWoLF Member+

    Juventus
    Jul 15, 2014
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Surprised they haven’t made any announcements. It’s time to move him to the B squad.
     
  24. IcEWoLF

    IcEWoLF Member+

    Juventus
    Jul 15, 2014
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is this confirmed? So far no words.
     
  25. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    No just speculation but I heard them saying Allegri going to Real on the domenica sportiva last night.
     

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