Perfetto, the Return of Carletto! - Benvenuto Carlo Ancelotti

Discussion in 'Real Madrid' started by MiamiNative0722, Jun 1, 2021.

  1. 4x4s

    4x4s Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 26, 2006
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    See here's the thing with the internet. I didn't say it was "all Liverpool's scouts" that's you being a little dork.

    Whne Liverpool become the best Premier League team under Klopp, and you point out that they innovated with recruitment and that put them way ahead of the competition, people take it as if you just called him a cripple but the reality is that edge just gave him another 15% or so.

    Ian Graham began working at Liverpool while Brendan Rodgers was still coaching the club, and they instantly clashed. When presented with data driven analysis on how players like Salah could triple their goal contributions, how signing a 9 that's not a primary goal scoring option would be a clever solution, Rodgers said he's not listening to some computer geek from university. Klopp was more receptive, and ready to work along where other managers Liverpool talked to wanted 100% control.

    Klopp also innovated in a lot of ways. He asked to hire Bayern's nutritionist. When Bayern were asked if they would allow her to join Liverpool, Liverpool actually didn't think they'd have any chances, but Bayern just say, yeah sure, fine we'll just get another cook. The result was the entire squad top to bottom lost weight, vegan players managed to stay in shape better than ever before and meal timing was perfected around travel and game times whereas a lot of clubs were still ordering fast food and catering.

    As far as maximizing a player, why didn't Klopp turn Darwin Nunez into the left wing Salah? Why didn't he turn Alberto Moreno into Trent Alexander Arnold? Why couldn't he make the players that came in per his request better?

    Every so often a good team reaches great heights because it all comes together. We are no different in this way by the way.

    I also wanted to highlight another thing on the same note. How effective would Zidane even be in Madrid at this point when nothing is left of his team? It's a team of players he left, saying he couldn't bring them forward, he pretty much left the team saying these players need somebody else. What would he come back to tell them?

    What we need to is calm the f*** down, have our players tone down the Paris fashion week trips and vacation tips between games, and come back to this discussion at the end of the season.
     
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  2. 4x4s

    4x4s Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 26, 2006
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    The success quickly gave the young players the impression that they are leaders now but a lot of them are not mature enough to lead a team.
     
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  3. Ssr9

    Ssr9 Member+

    Real Madrid
    Nov 10, 2008
    Sydney
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Mali
    Very good point. Attitude can be MUCH better for quite a few players.

    It's down to basics now. We have to work harder on and off the ball. A few players are cruising....especially those in attack.

    I guess this can happen with recent success. Guys like Vini have just won 2 CLs out of 3 and are being labeled the ballon d'or....it can get to a young guy's head.

    Time to remind them they are not yet legends. Must work.
     
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  4. Seoul Villan

    Seoul Villan Member+

    Feb 16, 2011
    #2579 Seoul Villan, Oct 4, 2024
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2024
    Lack of leadership? We have Dani, Modric, LV and to a lesser extent Courtois, Alaba and Fede.

    I don’t think that’s the issue. We have a lack of effort by some players and tactical problem trying to play a certain way with players who are not able to or understand what their roles are.

    When Jude is covering defensively at LB tracking the overlapping run from the anttacker and then making #9 runs off ball over the top on the last defender as an attacker…. Something seems really off.
     
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  5. INST

    INST Member+

    Real Madrid
    Aug 15, 2023
    That you Delph? :p:D
     
  6. lecannois

    lecannois Member+

    Real Madrid
    France
    Jul 6, 2023
    Zidane left because of his feud with Jose Angel and nothing else. He was furious that the club was passing messages to him via the media as opposed to in his face. It had nothing to do with "he couldn't take the team forward".
     
  7. fierro

    fierro Member+

    Jan 30, 2007
    El Chuco
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Zidane's said he was leaving because he couldn't take the team forward, a conclusion many people had reached way before he did. His big Galactico signing Hazard was a bust and he couldn't get any ketchup out of Jovic either. He had Vini playing RB at times with his development seeming to somehow regress.
     
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  8. 4x4s

    4x4s Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 26, 2006
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Zidane was exhausted when he left. He really looked like he had nothing left.
     
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  9. INST

    INST Member+

    Real Madrid
    Aug 15, 2023
    I only mentioned Zidane as an interim, in case Carlo doesn’t get to finish the season. Which would be out of the ordinary and results really going south. Because I don’t see other realistic options out there. Not saying he’ll get the gig again permanently. Still believe the club will go for Alonso. Given the Carlo extension lining up with Alonso’s extension and all the other reports we’ve been hearing.
     
  10. RaMaaa

    RaMaaa Member+

    Feb 3, 2013
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Some of you really need to calm down. Just breathe:thumbsdown:
     
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  11. lecannois

    lecannois Member+

    Real Madrid
    France
    Jul 6, 2023
    He did. It wasn't the footballing part though. I'll find the interview in French if I can find it... but he made it pretty clear that the passive-aggressive pressure from management (through the media) "wasn't pleasant". He said something like this: "I'm the type of person who likes to look someone in the eye and work out the problems. But since nobody would look me in the eye, the disagreements were left to fester." Something like that. He got tired of the club environment.

    Carlo is about to get his second dose of it (after his first firing) if we don't look more pleasant. Real Madrid was never known for stability until Carlo/Zidane lol. Even then, Carlo got fired once, then Rafa Benitez, then Zidane, then Lopotegui, then Solari, then Zidane again, and now Carlo again. That's our idea of stable. Since 2013, we've had 7 managers (some on repeat).
     
  12. 4x4s

    4x4s Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 26, 2006
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    This is a very normal process in football and by common comparison a healthy rotation.

    The average club barely holds on to a manager for longer than 2 years.
     
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  13. fierro

    fierro Member+

    Jan 30, 2007
    El Chuco
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    On the other hand the most successful clubs of the last 20 years or so had their managers for a significantly longer duration than that.

    Ferguson at ManU, who might have added a couple of more CL titles if not for Pep at Barca (and then Bayern and City).

    Klopp and Dortmund and Liverpool.

    Zidane was here long enough to win 3 CL titles.

    Carlo is in his third year having won 2 CL and 2 La Liga titles in that span.
     
  14. 4x4s

    4x4s Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 26, 2006
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Excluding Alex Ferguson and Wenger, but including Klopp, Guardiola and Mourinho the average tenure of a Premier League manager is 1.5 to 2 years.

    Wenger (22 years at Arsenal) and Ferguson (26 years at Manchester United) significantly skew the average when included.

    Since 2000, Bayern's average tenure has been 1.5 to 2 years. The only long last coach in modern times has been Hitzfeld with 6 years.
     
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  15. fierro

    fierro Member+

    Jan 30, 2007
    El Chuco
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States


    Sure let's take out the two best examples being used and then look at the results. I'm talking about the clubs and managers that had the most success (titles), not your average manager for West Ham, Newcastle and Aston Villa.


    Hitzfeld is the best example. He needed time with both Dortmund and Bayern to bring titles but he won the CL with both.
     
  16. 4x4s

    4x4s Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 26, 2006
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Yes, that's how creating an average works in sports, even in the professional setting, you usually take away the extremely best, and the extremely worst examples and create a realistic hub to judge players in. This is how many clubs actually create their data.

    When we judge Endrick, we're not going to compare him to Messi/Ronaldo at 19, nor are we going to compare him to Pau Cabanes.
     
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  17. fierro

    fierro Member+

    Jan 30, 2007
    El Chuco
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    As is not unusual, your post is devoid of context and reality. The standard for Real Madrid is winning titles and having the best players like Cristiano Ronaldo or Ronaldo Fenomeno.

    The standard is not to be a .500 team (an average team) as your model is based on.

    Endrick was bought with a huge transfer fee exactly because he projects to be among the world's best players in the future. If he turns out not to be then the projections change and instead of becoming Vinicius, he becomes Rodrygo with transfer rumors every window about the club seeking an upgrade and the player seeking a bigger role and better contract at another club.
     
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  18. 4x4s

    4x4s Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 26, 2006
    Club:
    Real Madrid

    My model included Pep Guardiola, Mourinho and Klopp.

    Not going to sugarcoat it. You're simply too stupid to discuss this.
     
  19. fierro

    fierro Member+

    Jan 30, 2007
    El Chuco
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Yes well perhaps you are projecting how you feel trying to argue your point.
     
  20. Saeta Rubia

    Saeta Rubia Member+

    May 28, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
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  21. fierro

    fierro Member+

    Jan 30, 2007
    El Chuco
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How in the world is Carlo Ancelotti good friends with Zoe Saldana you say.





    [​IMG]
     
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  22. hector_br

    hector_br Member+

    Feb 13, 2007
    Yep, if I'm not mistaken, it took some time for Zizou's realtionship with RM to heal again. We can't ignore Madrid's (Baws Don Corleone's) dirty tactics. He doesn't care if you're Zidane or Zifoda.
     
  23. Galatico

    Galatico Member+

    Real Madrid
    United States
    Aug 15, 2019
    I doubt Zidane will ever manage us again, everything I'd read about him since he left suggests he wants full control over the transfer window, and he wouldn't get that here.

    With that being said I back Carlo 120%. I appreciate having him as our manager, and the board has not made things easy for him this season.
     
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  24. lecannois

    lecannois Member+

    Real Madrid
    France
    Jul 6, 2023
    We're actually the most stable environment of all the elite clubs by far. Never thought I'd say that as between Del Bosque's departure and Mouinho's arrival, it was a complete s-show. I actually give a lot of credit to Mourinho for changing the culture of the club. He completely changed our football operations and we've never looked back. Hope it continues.

    Flo was obsessed with our brand off the pitch and Mourinho made it about the product on the pitch again. We've found the perfect balance, to Flo's credit. He changed a bit for the good of the club.
     
  25. fierro

    fierro Member+

    Jan 30, 2007
    El Chuco
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Do you not remember the sh1t show that culminated with Mourinho's last season (2013).

    That was the shit show to end all shit shows, civil war within a fractured locker room as Captains and Balon D'Or winners vs. Mou and his followers.

    It's funny because two years later (2015) the same locker room was united behind Carlo Ancelotti and showed their support by asking Florentino Perez to keep him and but instead Flo came up with a brilliant plan to hire Rafa Benitez as manager for half a season before replacing him.

    Then when needing a manager again in the year 2018 went on another manager hiring binge this time breaking his own record and hiring three different manager's in the same season.

    Finally in 2021 we come full circle hire Carlo Ancelotti back, he wins 2 CL and 2 La Liga's and by 2024 we are completely changing the locker room dynamics and unsettling the team with a completely unnecessary Galactico signing who brings tons of baggage but leaves the team top heavy and weak in defense with the "game plan" being here Carlo fix this mess.
     
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