Penalties And England

Discussion in 'England' started by King Rooney, Oct 21, 2004.

  1. King Rooney

    King Rooney New Member

    Jul 29, 2004
    Leicester
    What is it with England and penalties? Pearce, Waddle, batty, Southgate, BECKHAM and Vassell. THe only players that were consistent in penalty shoot outs hav retired from international football (Shearer and Seaman). So my question is: is it down to bad luck, a mental problem or just poor striking?
     
  2. sendorange

    sendorange Member+

    Jun 7, 2003
    Bigsoccer.com
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    The Dutch are even worse, although they finally won one against Sweden in Euro 2004.

    It's mental but it's also about practise. Our lads don't practise enough, but then in fairness with cup replays we do not have a domestic culture of penalty shootouts, so there's little point in someone practising day in and day out unless they're number 1 or number 2 penalty taker for the club, which is invariably a striker or attacking midfielder.

    As it is the boys looked like Sven had got them practising a bit and didn't do too badly against Portugal despite a dodgy penalty spot. Beckham needs to sort himself out though, 3 dreadful penalties against Turkey, France and then Portugal. If he wants to a be a first choice taker and misses another, I will personally wring his ****ing neck. As it panned out, if Becks had scored that first penalty, we would have won the shootout against Portugal. It did go to sudden death after all, and Sven had made defensive substitutions rather than the attacking ones Scolari had made, which is swapping possible penalty takers for people who may not have taken one in their lives.

    Disappointed that Vassell as a striker missed, but then some strikers like him don't take penalties for their club and therefore are not in practise or confident about taking one.
     
  3. Mikey10

    Mikey10 Member

    Sep 20, 2003
    Netherlands
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Beckham, for 2 out of his 3 penalties, has been massively unlucky. The penalty against Turkey was only missed because the grass gave way under his foot causing him to slip, and the penalty against Portugal was only missed because the ball moved just before he struck it. Hardly his fault. He can only be blamed for the one against France, which was actually on target, but should've been closer to the corner of the goal.
     
  4. sendorange

    sendorange Member+

    Jun 7, 2003
    Bigsoccer.com
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I think his technique didn't help him though, he has an odd way of taking them, it's like both feet nearly make contact with each other.
     
  5. King Rooney

    King Rooney New Member

    Jul 29, 2004
    Leicester
    We need a new Shearer for pens. Defoe seems like the only one that could put them in like him, although maybe Rooney.
     
  6. Pigs

    Pigs Member

    Everton FC
    England
    Mar 31, 2001
    Everywhere and nowhere
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    1990' World Cup Semifinal (knocked out on penalties)
    1996' Euro Semifinal (knocked out on penalties)
    1998' World Cup 2nd Round (knocked out on penalties)
    2004' Euro Quarterfinal (knocked out on penalties)

    I think it's because of pressure.
     
  7. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    ...added to by the crazy belief that it's pointless practicing penalties as you can't recreate the pressure of the situation. You can't teach players to handle the nerves, but you can get them to a state where they have the technical ability to hit a decent penalty. Having crucial kicks taken by players who've never done it before in their lives isn't a recipe for success.
     
  8. Pazarius

    Pazarius New Member

    Jan 10, 2004
    England
    I agree, but I would go further. I think you can teach players to better handle the nerves, it just needs some original thinking.

    For a start, why not pay a large group of Scottish fans to stand behind the goal and hurl obscenities at the players while they practice penalties? And have some embarassing forfeit for the players who score the fewest? Better to try something than just accept we're going to lose every penalty shoot-out.
     
  9. Matt Clark

    Matt Clark Member

    Dec 19, 1999
    Liverpool
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Bingo. His standing foot is usually far too close to the ball. He wafts through it like he's hitting one of his free-kicks. It's noticeable that his most effective penalties (like, for instance, the one against the Argies) have been ones where he's just ran straight up to it and battered it as hard as he could.

    Penalties are about more than just nerves. It's true that you can't recreate the pressure and you cannot therefore fully guarantee that a player who is reliable in training will be equally reliable when the time comes in a big internationa. But you can train your body to repeat a mechanical action as precisely as possible. Penalty takers in any team should do what Shearer does. He has trained himself to perform one of four actions - he hits his penalties into one of the four corners every time he takes them. Hard, straight and unreachable by any goalie in the world without dumb luck giving him a hand.

    Take a look at any of the famous misses we've had in the past 15 years and you have two things going on:

    1) The person who missed does not take penalties very often AND/OR
    2) The person who missed was hitting it where he hoped it would net at that given moment. He was not repeating a trained action.

    You can also train yourself to isolate your thinking from what is going on around you -indeed, most major clubs now employ sports psychologists to do exactly this. So preparation of this kind is eminently possible and, it is to be hoped, something England will be increasingly insistent upon.
     
  10. royalstilton

    royalstilton Member

    Aug 2, 2004
    SoCal
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I play golf. Not exactly the same as taking penalties, but one thing I know well: one must be fully committed to the shot. It does no good to improvise on the downswing.

    A decision where to strike a penalty shot must be made in advance of approaching the ball. The specific technique necessary to make that strike must be ingrained, not synthesized during the run-up.

    It is the hideous pressure that creates indecision, which is the by-product of lack of confidence. How can one gain confidence? Through hours of good practice.

    As a side note, I should not limit to Scots inclusion in the gathered throng at penalty practice. I should think an occasional Lancashire lad would do as well. We'd have to give 'im a mutton joint, though.
     
  11. Pigs

    Pigs Member

    Everton FC
    England
    Mar 31, 2001
    Everywhere and nowhere
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    The last two are great points and can only help players, but these so called "proffesionals" should of known this from day one and still at the same time though, no matter how much psychologists are behind you, you still can't re-create the pressure of being in say a World Cup Semifinal penalty shoot out and knowing you have the whole of your country watching you. Plus coaches might not want to spend so much time on penalties because the aim of the game is to win. Shearer is a great example of an excellent penalty taker but then again Shearer is "the" proffesional who was "grown up" and able to handle pressure naturally and I think these types of players are lacking in English football.
     
  12. Matt Clark

    Matt Clark Member

    Dec 19, 1999
    Liverpool
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    I don't think that's true at all. England are blessed with a wide variety of players who can handle pressure in spades. Beckham, Owen, Gerrard, Campbell, Neville, Cole - all players who have performed under intense pressure with no outward indication that it was affecting their performance in any way. Sure, they have either not taken a penalty at that level or missed it, but I don't think that's down to an intrinsic inability to handle pressure as, say, Shearer would.
     
  13. When Hell Unfreezes

    Jan 8, 2004
    London
    Sports psychologists don't take penalties, other than in their 'halls of residence' v the 'trainee dentists halls of residence', annual free-for-all.

    Do you think Chris Wobble really looked like he was carrying a nation's hopes on his shoulders as he strode up to take that pen, no, he was calm as you like, probably humming a familiar ditty (Diamond Lights) and nonchalantly (sp) despatching it amongst the pigeons, up into the rafters.

    The problem lies IMHO, in the fact that good free-kick takers, do not convert to good penalty takers. The art of taking a good free kick, is to bend it round, or over a wall, 10 metres away, so your target, is to miss the wall - now transfer that wall to the goalmouth and you need a completely different skill, to hit the wall, represented by the net - ne'er the twain shall meet!

    The best penalty takers I've seen, bearing in mind I've been around a lot longer than you lot, have invariably been defenders (Phil Neale springs readily to mind), because they pass the ball into the net, they don't try to blast it (other than SP)!
     
  14. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I'm not so sure. One of the best penalty takers I've seen was Jimmy Quinn, and he was from the "just whack the bugger" school of penalty taking. I remember him taking a penalty against Birmingham in a televised cup tie which was top corner - unstoppable - and Andy Gray's comment of "don't move keeper - there's a perfectly good net that's going to stop that".
     
  15. When Hell Unfreezes

    Jan 8, 2004
    London
    Admitted, that is one way to do it, but it's a lottery. When I was 'keeping, I used to make my mind up which way to go and hurl myself in that direction, spreading myself out, to make myself as big as I could. I saved quite a few, where it just hit me - OK, so I looked a dick at times when I would have stopped it if I'd stood still, but, win some lose some!

    I've still got a tape of a Company game, back in the late 80's where David Eyres (Oldham now) lobbed our 'keeper, from the spot - that was the first time I think I'd seen that done :) class!
     
  16. Pazarius

    Pazarius New Member

    Jan 10, 2004
    England
    Matt Le Tissier has to be the best penalty taker in recent times. He scored 47 times out of 48 attempts during his career. Le Tissier was able to put a remarkable amount of power into a side-foot shot, and so was consistently able to take penalties with both power and accuracy.
     
  17. QPRanger

    QPRanger New Member

    Oct 23, 2004

    It's like a Roulette wheel coming up red all the time when you are betting black. Just bad luck (and pressure to an extent) but over time it will even up.

    Who knows England could well have had a couple more trophies at least except for some really bad luck.
     

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