I can't make up for the lack of understanding of the game or you ignoring years of articles, insight and commentary by experts and coaches on the skill of Rose Lavelle with a "link". Do some research on your own! But please, stop repeating yourself, it won't make your argument true.
That just sounds like what someone says when they're blowing smoke. If there is such a bounty of support, post one. And, when you straight up lie about what I said, I'm going to have to repost it so that you can re-read it. Come on, Brooklyn. One link. Throw an old guy who doesn't know anything about soccer a bone.
I think Morgan lost by getting COVID--she is not a lock and needs to prove that she is better than alternatives. Although unlikely, I can see a world where the team takes Lloyd and not Morgan. I agree that Lloyd will be fit, I just prefer other options. I though Lavelle had some good moments in tight spaces and think this is a strength (ie see at 21 ish, Mewis plays a ball in, Lavelle brings it down with one touch and then sets up Macario for a shot). I do agree that Mewis is playing really well and I think she has raised her game since the World Cup. Picking the US midfield is not an easy call. I would honestly be tempted to to switch formation to get all 4 on the field given the skill of the US outside backs in providing width. I do agree that Williams has limitations which are clear--the question is if the qualities offset this. Its a no for me, but I can understand posters who think otherwise. @taosjohn--we certainly could push Dunn or another outside back up, but this might lead to problems at the back. Once the competition has started we cannot call on alternates unless something has radically changed. This is the limitation of the 18 player roster and why I think it is so important that everyone selected to a small roster is sharp and ready to go. The She Believes will be interesting, both for roster selection and performance (though we will have to see if the Olympics happen, I would actually be surprised if it is called off given the financial hit Japan will take)
I would guess @BrooklynSoccer may be referring to an article like this one: https://equalizersoccer.com/2019/05...ns-world-cup-jill-ellis-sweden-2016-olympics/ The thing is I think you're both kind of right. She's not as good at a more rigid possession-oriented game (maybe a better word than rigid would be systematic), and I think that's why she's not shining at Manchester City. In addition, she does not shine on the wing, where Manchester City has played her some and where she did get a look or two at one point with the USWNT (back in her first caps when Ellis was experimenting with a 3-4-1-2 and a 4-4-2). She can play there, but it is definitely not her best position. She's good at breaking lines both on the dribble and with a pass or by finding the space. She can dribble at a defense and dribble in tight spaces. She can absolutely break down a bunker but perhaps plays best in transition. As such, she's best as a 10 or an advanced/forward-looking 8, with less defensive responsibilities and freedom to play. It probably goes without saying, but she's also best when fully fit, and I think she's just now getting back there (again). Always seeming to be hampered by injuries is really her biggest hang-up. Sidenote: Vlatko, in one of the press conferences, said the coaching staff has looked at ways to get more of the midfield on the field at a time. But, his tone kind of said that it wasn't likely. The thing is while the midfield is deep (deeper than it's ever been?), it's all players who play best centrally. I guess they could look at a box midfield, but I still don't know if it'd play to all the players' strengths. Plus, if you do that, you're limiting the number of forwards, which is also deep (but if you're playing a box midfield, some of the wingers might drop into the midfield). It'd be interesting to watch though. I always think it's hard for the coaching staff, but really with this team right now, the coaching staff have a very difficult job.
Williams for me is very likely to make the Olympics, and not because I personally think she's necessarily the best option, but because Andonovski is so high on her. She would be one though that I think is not best against a team that is bunkering. I'll be interested to see how she does in SheBelieves games. Right now, in her current form, Mewis is the best midfielder on the team, if not the best player on the team, imo. I hope her ankle is ok. Dunn's biggest strength is her versatility. I think she will continue on the backline, as that is where the team needs her, but being able to put her up top (or in the midfield really) if there's an injury or something is the KEY that makes her an absolute lock on the team.
Also a couple of positive moments from the game that haven't been mentioned: -We had a goalkeeper get an entire game that wasn't Naeher! Andonovski does seem more willing to do this than Ellis, but I want to see back-up keepers get minutes (and minutes in games that matter). I loved to see it. -And we had a young backline (with the exception of Krieger)! They didn't have a lot to do defensively, but they were getting involved. Each of the center backs made a mistake or two, but overall did well, and I love to see young players getting an entire game to be tested and figure things out.
I'm trying to bring back a little bit more discussion on the actual game, so... Surprised we only have comments on how easy Mewis went down, and not that Chesky had already talked to the defenders at least twice that I noticed about fouling on corner kicks. One of those times is IMMEDIATELY before she calls the PK. She was ready to call it because she had just warned that exact defender who was on Mewis to stop the holding and/or pushing. Also Mewis may have gone down easy, but it still was a clear foul. (And Mewis, having heard the warning, may have thought it'd be easy to earn that PK.)
The problem I have is that referees in general do not call fouls in the box with ant degree of consistency or even honesty. It is wrong that outright muggings in the box do not get called while other, much softer, contacts do get called. In this case I believe that most referees would not call that foul because it would "affect the game" but what they seem to miss is that allowing the foul to go uncalled also "affects the game." It is argued that if all fouls were called there would be too many and that there would also be too many yellow and red cards. However I believe that if the players are any good they would quickly adjust and if they can't or won't adjust the coaches would stop playing them. The game would be better in the long run if fouls in the box were called just the same as fouls in the midfield. But it has been shown the referees do not change. Like when the offside rule was changed to say doubt goes to the forwards the calls did not change but "doubt" suddenly disappeared. So we are stuck with different standards for fouls depending on field position. But back to Mewis' foul I still say that it was a very soft foul but, as you said, it was a foul and it clearly should be called. It is just inconsistent with what was called earlier and later in the match and that indicates to me that referees only call what they want and not what is truly happening.
It can also be hard to see on TV if this was a continuation or quite how bad it was from the ref's angle. I think Sam might have had a free header without the foul, which is also relevent.
I read the article up to the paywall. That was a good splitting pass, but it left a lot of work for Mewis. And, that was the highlight. Rose is a probably our second best dribbler (pending evaluation of Macario), after Tobin. And, they are different. Tobin has always excelled starting from a dead start. Rose is a great attacking dribbler in space. I just don't think Rose is going to break down a bunkered D around the box. I went back and looked at her highlights on Youtube. Almost invariably, she goes around a cluster of players, not through them. (not many can go through them). So, around the box, she's going to be making a lateral pass or setting up a shot. She has been growing in her game and growing in confidence, I think her play back when Ellis tried her on the wing and she was pretty new is losing relevance. That is my point. As a comparison, Tobin has, for most of her career, not been great at transition. It's like if she got the ball in space, she'd rather stop and set up her move, rather than keep running. She has improved in that immensely in the last couple of years. Rose, otoh, loves running onto a ball. To me, she has the tools to be a great wing player. And, she has the tools to be a great CM player in reasonably open match. And, you know, it's funny, all I said in my original post was that the matches against Colombia were always going to make Pinoe look better and Lavelle & Williams look worse. Lavelle and Williams are going to be better against teams that are going to come out and play. Like I said above, I think the solution is to try cycling Rose through the wing. In the Olympics (which may not happen), it's unlikely Pino can go back to back games. She's going to need to sit out the 2nd and 4th matches. Right now, the wing pool is Pino, Tobin (who are very similar to me), Williams, and maybe Macario? I'd experiment with Rose on the Wing. Then she could start at am, move over to spell Pino, go back to the midfield. It's a possibility. And, I don't think that Colombia match has much relevance to what she'll face in the Olympics (if they happen). The Olympics has a smaller pool. All the teams will be good. The matches will be more open. This will all be forgotten, unless someone wants to come back and make up something I said that I didn't. I was merely trying to say that playing against that bunker was not going to show Rose's game in its best light, where has it was great for Pino.
There are literally dozens of more articles and interviews about Rose's technical ability and style of play, which is nothing like Williams. Please, stop comparing the two. And for the 3rd time, she's not 90 ready and hasn't been for months. USA Today: https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...19-rose-lavelle-star-future-uswnt/1669783001/ Rose Lavelle was a revelation in this World Cup, scoring three goals and befuddling opponents with her dazzling footwork and magician-like ability to get herself out of spaces. She was awarded the Bronze Ball, given to the third-best player in the tournament. Lavelle can do things with the ball that don’t seem possible, looking like a cat with a ball of yarn as she darts around defenders. What should be turnovers are not because of her ability to navigate through traffic. She’s fast, she’s creative and she sees the game in a way that can’t be taught. Sports Illustrated: https://www.si.com/soccer/2020/03/05/rose-lavelle-uswnt-breakout-womens-world-cup-shebelieves Depending on the day, Lavelle may be an escape artist, wriggling out of tight spots; a virtuoso, known for her creativity; or a trickster, skilled in deceit. She may be a magician, or a technically flawless cyborg, or a purveyor of fine spices focused on nutmeg. CBS sports https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/ne...cup-but-its-only-the-beginning-of-her-ascent/ But the best and most consistent player in open play was Lavelle -- a brilliant two-way midfielder who made her World Cup debut this summer a little more than two years after her first cap with the USWNT, https://www.cincinnatimagazine.com/features/make-way-for-rose-lavelle/ “...we have never had a player like her on the senior United States Women’s National Team.” - April Heinrichs “Rose’s game oozes skill and sophistication,” she said. “She not only has exquisite feet, but a uniquely outstanding left foot. She has an ability to manage the ball with both feet and receive the ball in ways that most players do not.” "While not blessed with exceptional speed, Heinrichs said, “Rose changes direction, with and without the ball, as well as anyone. Which is one of the more important physical attributes to be successful in the game today. A player like Rose is able to separate herself by her technical and tactical ability to solve problems, with both feet and with her head up." ..Her ability to maneuver in and out of pressure, then do it again and play a simple ball, is unbelievable.” USA soccer, April Heincrichs
Please work on your reading comprehension. You keep saying don't keep saying the same thing. But, you keep mischaracterizing (lying about) what I said. So, here we go again. I didn't compare their style of play. I specifically said Williams is different because Williams beats players with speed. Once again, here's what I said: "I'm a broken record on this, but the competition did not favor Williams or Lavelle. Both of their games thrive when there is space. It's all well and good for either player to beat a player 1v1, but when the defense is already back and compact, they're going to have to beat another couple of players before they can do anything. I would have thought that Lavelle could do pretty well in that environment. But, it looks like her core competency is the beat a player and set up her shot. She's not that great at dribbling through a crowd. When the defense is back and compact, that shot is often taken away, she has to reset. It's wash, rinse, repeat. If Rose and Pino switched positions, the perception of them from these matches would probably switch. Rose would be out on the wing, one v one, and she'd get shots. Pino would be stuck in a crowd with her shots blocked. And, this isn't a big criticism of Rose - not many players can dribble though a crowd. Teams bunker for a reason. The difference with Williams is that when she's out on the wing, she beats players with speed. That takes her deep. When she's already deep when she receives the ball, it takes her tooooooo deep to do anything. She's on the endline and very wide by the time she rounds the defender. She needs to receive the ball or start her run higher up the field." I highlighted two relevant parts. Let's start with the second. I said THE DIFFERENCE with Williams is that she beats players with speed. Do you understand the words that I'm saying. I didn't say the similarity, I said the DIFFERENCE. Now, let's take the first quote. I said she's not that great at dribbling though a crowd. All of the quotes you provided talk about her ability to hold the ball under pressure. Except for two. One thing you underlined, she's a brilliant two-way midfielder. Yes, she absolutely is. What does that have to do with our discussion? The other - the only one, a single quote out of what you asserted was a library full of literature stating that Rose excels at dribbling though a crowd. One quote says her ability to navigate through traffic. And, in an open game, she's probably better than anyone we've ever had at that. But, when the opposing team is bunkering, she's not going to beat 2 or 3 players vertically to get in on goal. That's what I said in my OP. I did not say she was like Williams in that she beats players with speed. I said The difference with Williams is that when she's out on the wing, she beats players with speed. I said the opposite of what you are asserting. And, while I think she is incredible at snaking down the field in an open game, and incredible at holding the ball under pressure, she's not going to beat two or three bunkered defenders at the top of the box. As I said in an earlier post, when there's a crowd, her thing is to hold the ball and go around the defenders.
I mean honestly this is just silly. and @cpthomas @lil_one - Rose thrives with he ball at her feet in a possession style game. (See almost everything written about Rose). She's only played winger a handful of times in her career. @ytrs - Rose has been dealing with hamstring issues and back issues on and off for 4+ years. The commentators mentioned it in game 1 that it's still lingering.
there also seems to be some confusion on the role of a winger in a 4-3-3 systems. This is the defensive formation. Rapinoe, Williams or Rose will all have different roles on the wing. Rose will play more central, Rapinoe will get crosses in, Williams will spread the back line, etc. They are not the same role, even in the same position.
Most recently, an ankle injury. In the past, mostly hamstring injuries. Fair enough. And you're right that while the team has a number of midfielders and forwards, we're a bit more limited on those who play best as a winger. You left off Press though; true, she's best centrally but she's played probably just as many games on the wing as in the middle. As for Lavelle, like I said, I think she could play on the wing as she's skilled enough to do so; based on her very recent play at Manchester City though, I still don't think it's her best position. But, it wouldn't be the first time a player on the team is asked to play in another position for the good of the team. (See Dunn.) Actually the more I think about it, I really would be interested in seeing an experiment with a box midfield and 2 up top when I think about how many players on the team play best centrally so that the outside backs can provide the width. It's probably not going to happen though, especially if the team is now down to ironing out finer details in the 4-3-3, which is what it sounds like. Then, it's not the best time to switch formations!
BrooklynSoccer, I am not sure why I am mentioned in your post -- I do not think I weighed in on Lavelle or Rapinoe either, in this discussion. I may have mentioned something about Williams quite a while ago. But, on Lavelle, I love her as a player, great with the ball and great visualizer and passer. The question with her, I think, is whether she is injury prone. If you cannot expect her to stay healthy for four games in a short period, that is a problem. If that is not a concern, I find it hard to believe she will not be on the team. As for Williams, Andonovski has made a point to talking about how she helps on defense. He says she is able to close down a defender who has the ball, very quickly, and thus is a big help in generating turnovers in his high pressing defense. This is something there has been very little discussion about so far, and I think that is a shortcoming in the discussion. Apparently, the ability of the wings to contribute to the high press is a significant consideration in his evaluating what otherwise would be attacking players. Among other veteran wingers, this is an asset that Heath provides. Purce also may be able to do it. Overall, there has been a lot of discussion about who can score. But, I am not sure scoring has been a big issue for a while, the team seems able to score. The big thing that has moved the US forward the last few years has been defense. I think that is what currently separates the US from the others.
Brook/Rall – I’m very close to sending the both of you to Time-Out. If it is any help to your disagreement/misunderstanding - below are some excerpts from the latest Report (1/25/2021) from the jackdoggy Institute of Soccer Analysis: Lynn Williams – Completely and Totally Awesome in everything she does. Rose Lavelle – Completely and Totally Awesome in everything she does. Yes, yes, yes a thousand times yes. Lighting Williams is relentless, never seems to tire and is absolutely the trigger to the high press. She is an absolute pain in the butt to the opposition’s backline. Three minutes into the Match, she’s already under their skin and rattling around in their heads. It’s hard for the opponent to score if they never have possession in the attacking third. Did I hear it or dream it that the USWNT's 2nd Best Offensive is our Defense? In that regard, I think Vlatko’s Goal is FC Barcelona, circa 2015. Rose Lavelle is a Fabergé Egg – unique, priceless, fragile and irreplaceable. Not sure what to think about T’s situation – emerging, talented and obviously trapped behind the Captain and Abby’s right leg (Side Note – just think if the careers of both Abby’s would have overlapped……..Wambach might have finished with 300+ Goals, Route 1 Baby!!!!) I feel an extra close connection to T because I was in attendance at her 1st CAP (something I equate to being present for the birth of your child) and she is the only USWNT member to give me a hug. And Midge, watch out for her, I can feel it in my Gut, she will soon achieve the Status of Bad*ss MoFo, just give her a little time. And I ask you, when it comes to Soccer Analysis, are you going to listen to Grant Wahl, Caitlin Murray or jackdoggy’s Gut??? I would equate Carli’s hold on this Team as similar to the grip depicted below: I’m not saying either way but Good Luck in attempting to release that grip. I’m not volunteering to be the individual to tell Carli she can NOT be the Tom Brady of Women’s Soccer. And for anyone attempting that Task……..may I suggest that you first have all your Legal Affairs in order and all Life and Health Insurance Premiums paid up to date. Kyrie Eleison, Christe Eleison, Kyrie Eleison.
Lynn - CPT made a very convincing argument in favor of her defensive contributions. The big thing with Lynn, to me, is just put the shot on goal. She misses the goal way to much to be a forward on an elite team. Pulisic was the same way a couple of years ago. Good things happen when you put it on target. It's an easy fix, really. Rose - Absolutely. Rose is indispensable.
People can agree or disagree on the relative value what WIlliams brings to team. I disagree on the ease putting shots on frame, especially when you play at the pace she does. Not looking to debate her skills because EVERY SINGLE player Ive been around could improve on something and believe me, most of the elite ones are trying to do just that. Most players will never make weaknesses strengths and some will weaken their strengths trying to. Great teams are a collection of skill sets, sometimes being less well rounded, but amazing at some things is waht the team needs. PS Pulisic has 2g in 18 appearances this yr !!
Completely agree. I'm certainly not going to say a negative work about Ertz, Horan, or Sam Mewis. All four of them deserve to be starters, though it's likely that only three of them will be. For me, Rose Lavelle simply has to be out there. And here's why. her goal against the Netherlands in the 2019 World Cup final. Some great athletes make the crucial play at the crucial moment. Some great athletes don't. Rose Lavelle--a young player without lots of experience in such moments--did what we'll always remember. I want her on the field. Can't possibly see this too many times.
We did a big trip last winter. Flew KLM 4 times. The WC recap was always available on the inflight. We did about 40 hours in the air on KLM. I watched the 60 minute recap of that match a bunch of times. A good way to kill an hour on a long flight. I would add that Ertz is absolutely indispensable. Between Mewis and Horan, I'm a bigger Mewis fan. But, Horan is also super valuable. It's my recollection that Horan started out as a 9-ish forward. I wouldn't be averse to trying her there. But, that's very unlikely, with Morgan, Lloyd, and maybe Press, and maybe Macario all already vying for that spot. So, since my fingers are moving, like I said, maybe the best approach would be to rotate Rose through the AM and Wing spots. And, since my fingers are moving: watch out for Purce, she looks dynamite. And, since I'm typing .... Purce