PBP Thread: Match #9, Brazil vs Switzerland, 17 June 2018 [R]

could be. In 1990 I was 10 years old, so I remember it even less than the 1994 WC

 

Why do you suppose I idolize Neymar and lick his ass? I've said that his bad reputation is deserved (more for too much embellishment and theatrics, than actually for diving, but still). I'm just saying that *in this match* he did not dive. He didn't even have the opportunity to dive (which means a simulated foul) because he was receiving real fouls all the time. I'm just calling it the way it was. This doesn't mean I idolize him or fail to see it when he does dive.

 

I don't know why the game was rigged. Maybe it wasn't institutional rigging, but this specific ref's own decision (who knows why? for bribery money, maybe?). I've advanced a number of *possible* explanations while acknowledging that some of the them sound like conspiracy theories. But I don't know if any of them is true, or if it is a combination of factors, or something totally different.

What I do know, is that the ref gifted to Switzerland this draw, intentionally. How do I *know* it given that I don't have a mind-reading device? Because it was so obvious, there is no denial. When ALL the controversial decisions go to favor one team and screw the other, and they keep coming over and over, it's just undeniable that this ref was biased and deliberately screw Brazil. Just incompetence would even out and favor one team here, the other one there. But the way it happen, sorry, no way. The game was rigged. By FIFA? By the ref? By bookmakers? I don't know. Nobody will ever know. But the fact of the rigging, I do know.

 

It was a matter of speaking, don't take it literally.

 

You mean that just because I'm Brazilian I'm supposed to forget my pragmatism and try to convince other people that the whole world is against us, and that will be the reason if Brazil doesn't win this WC?
C'mon. I don't like your conspiracy theories - like I don't like any conspiracy theory. It's like with fake news - sometimes I would love they are true. But this is not reason enough for me to spread them.
It's like on any conspiracy theories - people clutch at any straw that could be taken as a confirmation for their crazy ideas. Even if the issues they find contradict each other.
Sometimes it's good that Brazil finishes second so that both Brazil and Germany advance in parallel (even considering that Germany most probably will NOT finish first), sometimes it's good that Switzerland and Serbia advance because they're europeans, sometimes ... But in any case, a reason for justifying bad ref calls against Brazil must be found. Or as many as possible.
False analogies with FIFA's corruption issues, straw man arguments ... and you probably dislike the idea I'm brazilian because you can't use ad hominem on me, correct?
The fact is that referees are different from each other in the way they decide. Switzerlands goal would be given by some referees, by others it wouldn't, since it wasn't so clear. Gabriel Jesus' fall as well. No matter if in other matches during this WC the PKs were given or not, the refs are different. And at the end THEY decide, not the video assistants. And the fact is that we don't know either if the video assistants called the referee in any of the cases. If they said "there is perhaps an issue there" - and this is what they probably did, since the cases weren't 100% clear, he probably ignored them, since he was sure about his own decision.
Regarding the harsh methods the swiss players acted on defending ... there was no violence, and this is the point. There are plenty of referees who allow them.
I do believe some referees can be influenced in their decisions by the atmosphere, or even in a doubt by giving the reason to a highly favorite team in order not to feel that they had that much influence on the outcome of a match.
And we can be sure that corrupt referees do exist too.
But considering the insignificant influence this single guy could have in the outcome of the whole competition by acting right now in favor of any desired situation, and also considering that his actions weren't so scandalizing as you try to depict, I find it more than just unlikely that anyone would put in risk any reputation - and here I mean both referee and FIFA - for so little influence in such a preliminary phase of the competition.

 

A conspiracy involves by some definitions at least 5 people working together in secret to establish an outcome. If a ref is bias against Brasil in one game and in another game another referee is also biased against Brasil without colluding with the first ref it is not a conspiracy even if your definition of conspiracy is 2 or more people, in this case it is structural bias (zenophobia), not a conspiracy. IMO Bratisuta hás taken this a bit too far whilst agreeing on the ref. A draw versus Switzerland at the end of the day is not bad in the opening game and Brasil Will make to the next round (probably still as group leaders), so this match is (at least for now) is not that important. Time to concentrate on the next game?

 

Please point to an ad-hom I've used. I always discuss with civility. Much the opposite, in many discussions since the Cup started, in various threads, when people started to offend each other, I posted with appeals to calm. But yes, I'll criticize the fact that you made fun of this situation, while being a Brazilian. This has nothing to do with ad-homs. It's called a criticism. Criticizing is not necessarily insulting.

I said *many* times that I don't like conspiracy theories either, and said that we just don't know why it happened, and there are many possible explanations. I just said that it is undeniable that ALL decisions in this match went against Brazil, and this is just statistically improbable if there isn't a bias. As for the reason for the bias, it's anyone's guess (like I've said in all words). I just advanced some hypotheses, always saying "or maybe it's none of the above."

Sorry, but the fact that I'm not in some sort of appeasing denial doesn't make of me a conspiracy theorist.

Now, if you don't like my posts, feel free to ignore them, but don't put words in my mouth, as in, claiming that I'm fishing for ad-homs. That is not something that I do.

Have a nice day.

 

I didn't take anything too far. I said there was obvious bias (and I fully stand behind it), and suggested some possible explanations, while also saying "maybe it's none of the above."

And no, I'm not that optimistic. South American teams with the exception of Uruguay that got a late goal in, all did very poorly in the first round. This cup in Europe is not favorable to South Americans, and the bad start in my opinion bodes poorly.

It's enough for Brazil to lose to Serbia, and they won't advance.

So, I'm not reassured, at all, by how people are dismissing the trouble.

Anyway, yes, on to the next round. If I'm still protesting against this, it is now to defend my posts from the attacks that they've received of late (and a very unfair attack, for instance, accusing me of ad-homs which absolutely I haven't employed).

 

Neymar with pains:

"O atacante Neymar da Seleção Brasileira voltou a preocupar os fãs, companheiros e a comissão técnica. Ele deixou o gramado nos minutos iniciais do treino desta terça-feira (19) após sentir dores no tornozelo direito . Ele havia sofrido uma pancada no local no duelo contra a Suíça no domingo.

Rodrigo Lasmar:

""Neymar se queixou de dores no tornozelo em decorrência do número de faltas sofridas contra a Suíça", afirmou."

Já Philippe Coutinho, estrela da entrevista coletiva desta terça, garantiu não ter informações extras sobre o companheiro . "Vi o que vocês viram", afirmou.

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Sorry for the quotes in Portuguese, but whoever really wants to learn about what was said can always use Google Translate. In summary, Neymar has right foot pain after too many fouls suffered against Switzerland.

If the hack job continues, this is concerning, given that Neymar was already recovering from foot surgery.

 

Dude. Why did they red card you? Also, you're sister says hi.

 

1) no idea, nor do I care. I'm deleting my account
2) your *
3) I don't get the sister reference