PBP Match Thread: Serbia vs Switzerland, 22 June 2018 [R]

In a contact sport as football, there will almost always be contact.

That's the most lame excuse to try to divert atention, to the fact that Neymar with his "show", where he tried to get away with a cheat (and he almost did, as he initially "fooled" the referee, with it).

 

No, it's what the actual rules are. If there's contact you can flail around, and that's not simulation, because there's actual contact that knocks him down. Under your standard, every player who gets knocked down on a challenge and raises their arms in complaint at not getting a call should get a yellow. That's not the standard.

 

False.

Now with the use of VAR in place, referee's simply don't make the calls when there should be calls.
No wonder, there aren't as many bad calls now.

 

Maybe, perhaps, because you're not actually a referee and so don't know what refereeing looks like?

 

Imagine the emotional weight on the players. No wonder guys who play in World Cups start looking in their late 40s by the time they're 28.

 

Does anyone have a good video? I'm still scratching my head here, since a lot of very good referees looked at it and seemed to think it wasn't.

 

Ask FIFA.

 

Clear penalty. Serbs are right to be fuming.

 

-Fun game to watch. As a Swiss fan, and a referee who lives in the US, I think that it should have been a PK. Serbia played a great first 20 - 25 min, then the momentum swung in the favor of the Swiss.

I was wondering something else about the match, both Xhaka and Shaqiri made the double headed hand gesture after their goals. Were they in front of the Swiss fans or Serbian ones? The reason I ask, is both are from Kosovar families who fled the problems in the former Yugoslavia in the 1990s. The hand gesture could have been constituted as political by FIFA as it was done by Swiss-Kosovar's in a match against Serbia.

I would love to see Serbia defeat Brazil. Nothing would make me happier.

As a Swiss fan, I am nervous for the CR match. The team found themselves in a similar position not too long ago against Honduras, that did not turn out so well.

 

Well that was 8 years ago, and I think this Swiss team is a lot better than then. Also, even a defeat against Costa Rica could still see you through. And finally, do you really want to win that game? Winning this group could mean a R16 game against Germany, the loser may get the easier game. But you never know what might happen. Anyhoo, it was a fun match to watch.

It was very tense in the stadium, and on the streets here in Kaliningrad. Fortunately nothing bad happened with the crowd, well so far at least.

 

Actually, I don't find this that hard to understand. defender has him in a tackle, Mitrovic for his part has his right arm on the neck of one defender and an arm bar on the other as he simultaenously holds them down and pushes off them to get to the ball. ALL the fouls happen before Mitrovic jumps for the ball. Anything after he pushed off to get height is irrelevant here. Possibly, you've got simultaneous fouls going on here, so arguably the ref saw the elbow to the neck as a more serious infraction than the arm around the midriff before the jump. Maybe the ref made a mistake by not using a dropped ball as the restart, but the push off on the defenders happens well before they all go falling to the ground.

I think people saying this was clear cut need to recognize that two ref teams with WAY more experience than anyone on these boards saw it as not a clear PK, and second need to familiarize themselves with how the Laws of the Game work.

 

Here is the situation when the ball is kicked. Do you give a PK for the arm around the chest? Or the hand on Mtrovic's arm? Frankly, if that's all that had happened, they'd dropped their arms and a PK had been given for that grab, Switzerland would be fuming.




The ball is coming in. Mitrovic's arm on the neck of the defender is likely the foul called. Having a foul called for an arm bar on the neck would be pretty standard. Everything subsequent to this is irrelevant.

 

But let's take a look at what happens next: We have his other arm on top of the other defenders's head.

And if you want the full picture, when the ball arrives, Mitrovic pushes up off both defenders. He's got on hand on top of the hand of one defender, preventing him from going up for the ball himself and pushing him to the turf. He's got a hand on the face of the other as he pushes up.

 

The whole collapse in a heap pulling him down after is not relevant, because Mtrovic has clearly fouled both defenders and more seriously than an arm around the waist or a hand on the arm.

I really hate all the grabbiness in the game, and would like to see arms around players given PKs, personally and that whistled before the ball arrives. But that isn't the standard. A certain amount of tussle and so forth is permitted for better or worse.

So, yeah, not buyin the "clear and obvious PK" reasoning.

 

Just got back from the match... was probably the best game I've attended so far. Lots of tension due to the Kosovian ties of many Swiss players. In the end I guess the better team won it. Unfortunately, I was behind the wrong end of the goals but got some decent footage anyway.

Mitrovic's goal:



Shaqiri's winner:



You can tell who most of the crowd were behind lol...

 

So you are suggesting, that if 2 other players are holding an opponent down, he should not make any movement to try to get free from them, because by doing so if it happens that one of his arms hits one or both of the players that are grabbing him, a foul will be called at him.

very strange kind of logic


Next time somebody else that kicks an opponent, you will say that the first player simply kicked at the air, an the other guy just put himself in the path of his foot.....(Oh, and it will also be his fault)

 

Only now I finished watching the DVR'd games, so sorry to be late to the party. I'm amazed at how these FIFA refs are allowing Switzerland to commit penalties without having them called. This one was even worse than the one they committed on Brazil. What is going on? Why are the Swiss getting all the favorable calls or no calls???

 

Not to a degree that is ever a pk ever

 

I don't know, @Guinho , you seem to imply that these tugs of war in the box are never called a penalty. Well they usually aren't but when it's too blatant and directly influences the play, I've seen them called a penalty many times. By the way in this very Cup it happened, with support from VAR. There was a penalty called with the defender wrapping his arms around the attacker, in even less blatant manner than today. So, it's not like this is never called.

 

No, I am saying that the first foul gets called. That’s the rule

1)So, if the player is holding, that’s a foul. Under current practice, putting an arm on a player or on their waist is not a DFK. It has to be “careless, reckless, or with excessive force”. Placing an arm around aomeone’s Waist, not excessive force. That’s not enough to constitute holding. If it were, then Neymar deserved a PK and we would have pKs on every corner.

2) if the player extricates himself without excessive force, no foul. Incidental cotact without excessive force, not a foul. Putting you elbows on players and forcing them to the deck as you push off them, pretty clear excessive force and a foul

3) everything after that is irrelevant. Play stops with that first foul

It isn’t hard.





If you think that having an arm around a player is enough to warrant a PK, you’re watching a very different game


I am guessing you aren’t a referee.

 

An arm around the waist and a hand on an arm is not enough for a PK. Look at that phot an tell me you’d blow the whistle.


The arm and push off on the defenders is CLEARLY a foul