PBP Match Thread: Argentina vs Croatia, 21 June 2018 [R]

Discussion in 'GROUP D: Argentina, Croatia, Iceland, Nigeria' started by bigsoccertst1, Jun 21, 2018.

  1. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    That Zagallo story is a gross exaggeration. While Zagallo was a terrible coach in the 90s, in the 70s Tostao gives him credit for being ahead of the times. And Tostao is a very reliable source. I won't translate since you should understand Portuguese.

    “É mentira e uma injustiça com Zagallo quando dizem que a seleção de 70 não precisava de técnico porque tinha muitos craques. Dos treinadores que tive, Zagallo foi o único que sabia e treinava os detalhes táticos. Na época, os técnicos não se preocupavam com isso. Hoje, só pensam nisso”, escreveu Tostão em sua coluna na Folha de São Paulo em 12 de junho de 2005.

    https://mwfutebol.com.br/2018/04/18...a-tritadura-analise-da-selecao-na-copa-de-70/

    I don't think Zagallo was going to misuse Pelé. The controversy was that Tostão was tried in a position that Zagallo didn't think would work because that's not where he played at Cruzeiro. It ended up working. I don't know if that was Pelé's influence or not. People say it may have been Pelé that convinced him. But even so that doesn't mean Zagallo was an spectator. If you read the link you can see Tostao talking about his training methods and etc ... And honestly, hearing Pelé's commentary on games and players, I am not convinced he was astute enough to make tactical changes in a team.

    And again, this is 2018, I dare you to find players who will change tactics during the game against the coaches orders. Even though if you have been reading the news, it sounds like Argentina players tried to do that before the Croatia game putting up a fight against Sampaoli's new tactic.
     
  2. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Yes, Argentina players are staging mutiny against Sampaoli, as they should.

    Look, I mentioned what I read in a book. I don't remember the name of the book. Sure, Pelé has made some weird comments once he retired... but he was a player able to play in any position including goalie, and he did seem to be savvy enough about game strategy and tactics, while active. And yes, it's been said that he did call the shots in 1970, over Zagallo, including, regarding Tostão's role.

    I happen to personally know and befriend Tostão, pretty closely. He was married to a woman my family called a cousin (no blood ties but her parents and my parents were best friends and we were raised together); now, divorced. Tostão and I went to the same medical school (Universidade Federal de Minas Gerais). We talked about football many times... Not only due to these family ties and to being alumni of the same school, but because I've always been a rabid Cruzeiro fan. I never specifically asked him about this episode, though.

    But I wouldn't take what he said in his Folha de São Paulo column at face value. You know very well that there is always an opinion for the public and for the masses, a politically correct one, and one that is personal and not easily disclosed. Often people will pay lip service to their former mentors in public (and Tostão is an elegant guy who will always be polite regarding his elders)... while privately thinking that they are idiots. You said it yourself: "Zagallo was a terrible coach in the 90's" - hey, it should be the other way around. He should have learned from the 70's to the 90's. If he was terrible in the 90's (and he was), then he was even worse in the 70's.

    I don't know how old you are. Were you around during the 1970 Cup? I lived in Brazil at the time and remember it vividly. Everybody thought that Zagallo was crap.

    Next time I meet Tostão (which shouldn't be before a couple of years; I only go to Brazil every other year and I was there in March 2018) I'll ask him about this, specifically. If we're both here in 2020 and if Tostão allows me to say it publicly, I'll let you know what he said.
     
  3. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I know Tostao is a pretty shy guy who doesn't like to give too many interviews. He always struck me as honest with his opinion though. But sure, often they don't disclose everything specially if it may hurt somebody. It's not the last time he talked about this though. Just saw an interview with him and Alex which he mentions that again. I will also say that people who write books can also have agendas and to not trust it 100%.

    Zagallo not being good in the 90s doesn't mean he didn't do some things right in the 70s. What he didn't do, is update himself with the times. Which is normal. People said that when he coached post 94 he was running the same drills as he did in the 70s. Luxemburgo was a great coach in the 90s and 2000s and now he is terrible. And Zagallo as a player was known for his tactical intelligence because he was a hard working winger who tracked back and defended in a time where that wasn't common.

    No I wasn't even born in 1970. But I've read a bit over the years. And correct me if I am wrong, but criticizing Zagallo back then probably had more to do with the situation with Saldanha and the Military Government. Zagallo only took reigns 3 months before the WC so there wasn't even time to criticize anything he did.

    Now, if you have Tostao's ear, which is awesome, I'd be interested to know some of that info from the source unfiltered. Try sending him an email or call him because I might not remember this 2 years from now. :ROFLMAO:
     
  4. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Sure, maybe the book author had his own agenda.

    Yes, Saldanha got ousted because of his leftist views, and the freaking military dictator president Garrastazu Médici kept interfering, including, putting pressure on CBF to call up his favorite players. Sure, we were all furious with it (I was very young - 12 years old - so I was less aware of it, but my brother and my sister were activists that were persecuted by the military dictatorship), and then Zagallo got bashed as collateral damage. Still, we all called Zagallo, "burro."

    OK, I'll try to get Tostão to tell me about his real take on Zagallo... and will let you know, if he opens up more.

    Yes, Tostão is shy and reserved... but also extremely intelligent, and very, very savvy regarding football strategy and tactics. He is a thinker of the game, and a pleasure to talk with. It is so unfortunate that his career was cut short by his retina detachment... Tostão and I also have another point in common: wine (we both love wine).

    When my "cousin" started dating him, I was in awe, because one of the best football experiences in my entire life, happened when Cruzeiro, commanded by Tostão, beat Pelé-commanded Santos in 1966 (I was 8 years old, but my brother took me to Mineirão to watch the second game) to win the Taça Brasil (3-2, a come-from-behind victory, after destroying Santos 6-2 on the road). Also, the 1970 final featured Brazil vs. Italy, and I watched the game with my Italian-American father on our black-and-white TV, and he was rooting for Italy while I dared to defy him and rooted for Brazil... And then some years later, my idol Tostão who was instrumental in winning that Taça Brasil (and many other championships for Cruzeiro) and the 1970 FIFA World Cup, was dating my "cousin," and I got to meet him and befriend him... Awesome, indeed. He is a great guy.
     
  5. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    To be fair, every Brazilian coach except probably Tele and Tite has been called burro at one time or another. :ROFLMAO:

    Yeah let me know. That's an awesome connection. I am sure if you send him a nice bottle of wine, he will give you some info. :ROFLMAO:

    Here is the interview if you're interested.

     
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  6. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    LOL, Maradona, overrated?
    Yeah, right.
    :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
     
  7. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nice, some very good memories, there, watching this interview and the old footage. Thanks!

    Yes, sure, Tostão says some good things about Zagallo... I'm still not convinced. We'll see.

    Hey, see, Tostão says of Pelé: "When he was heavily marked, he used to say, 'I'll just go and play upfront as a center forward.' " Like I said, Pelé (like the other truly great players), was able to escape a bad situation and turn things around. Messi, on the other hand, is passive, gets frustrated, and then seems to get resigned to his fate, and disappears. Messi is NOT mentally strong. This is one of the reasons why he isn't the GOAT.
     
  8. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Jul 29, 2003
    USA
    While what you say about Argentina being favored may be true, in 2002, Argentina had a far superior squad with better teamwork and much more fire and nonetheless crashed out in the first round.
     
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  9. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Jul 29, 2003
    USA
    Speaking of Messi... thousands and thousands of keyboard keys have been struck about him in the past few days. I'll simply add a few of my own keystrokes.

    I sometimes canvass other countries' media (as I speak Portuguese and Spanish fluently in addition to English) and one theme I noted in the sports news of Argentina was criticism because Messi does not run. Former players and newspaper writers and even fans blasted him for simply walking - literally just walking.

    I had noticed this in the 2014 final, but in that game Messi nonetheless played to win, overall. But in the match vs. Croatia - if you have not done this, review the video highlights of Croatia's third goal. Admittedly, the Argentine backline (plus Mascherano) does not atempt to tackle Croatians or to intercept any passes to the Croatians.

    But watch the man wearing the #10 jersey and the captain's armband. He does not run, he doesn't attempt to tell the linesmen there was an offside (there wasn't), and he doesn't even walk.

    Messi simply stands still.

    And after the Croatians have scored their third goal, he casually turns and simply walks off as if there was nothing happening, "nothing to see here."

    I watched the highlights after all the "Messi doesn't run" commentary and my goodness, if this is the best player in the world, the superstar of Spanish leagues who is to some superior to countryman Maradona and Brazilian Pelé, then I wonder what his defenders think, with his team on the brink of elimination and Messi walking and standing passively.

    Sure, maybe Messi will light up Nigeria for 5 goals in the first half alone and silence all critics. But if Nigeria eliminates Argentina, and if Messi has another lackluster game, will Messi still be called the best player of the world?
     
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  10. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Yep. I have no problem calling Messi a superb Barcelona player. From this, to calling him the current best player in the world is already a stretch, and it is definitely a huge, unwarranted stretch to call him the Greatest of All Time. This, I'd say, regardless of whether or not he lights up Nigeria for 5 goals and goes on to win this cup. Given the multiple past failures, one success would simply bring him back to the conversation regarding the GOAT. He wouldn't *be* the GOAT (that's for Pelé and Maradona) but would belong in the conversation, together with other greats who are a notch below the two true co-GOATs. Now, if he fails to do this - and even if he does accomplish some of the steps and takes his team to the final game, but doesn't win it - then he doesn't even belong in the conversation, period, full stop, like I've been saying.

    See, regardless of the fact that this is a team sport, all players who legitimately belong in the GOAT conversation have won the World Cup - Pelé, Maradona, the real Ronaldo (fat Ronaldo), Beckenbauer, and Zidane.

    Then, we have a list of greats who never got it done. It's where Messi belongs. It includes Johan Cruyff, Alfredo di Stéfano, Ferenc Puskás, Paolo Maldini, Michel Platini, Zico, Cristiano Ronaldo, Lev Yashin, Marco van Basten, George Best, and Eusebio. Do notice that many of these at least won continental championships with their national teams (Messi has won zip, nul, nada with Argentina's NT). Then there are those who actually did win the World Cup but didn't shine as much as the top five: Garrincha, Bobby Moore, Cafu, Romário, Gerd Müller, Rivaldo, Bobby Charlton, Meazza, Iniesta, Romário, Ronaldinho, Paolo Rossi, Mario Kempes, Buffon, Xavis... and others (not an all-inclusive list).

    So Messi is properly placed, as of now when he hasn't won anything with his national team, somewhere between #6 and #17... then the top 32 or 35 or 40 would list the many names of players who actually did win the World Cup... and would have that over him, but maybe are not as shiny. Some of these even would have a valid claim in placing themselves above Messi.

    The bottom line is, if Messi wins this World Cup with Argentina, I'll solidly place him as #6 (I don't think that even with a WC win, he would have a good case to jump above any of the big 5 I've quoted - Pelé, Maradona, real Ronaldo, Beckenbauer, and Zidane - the reason being that all five were *consistently* great for both club and country for long stretches of time, instead of a long history of failures with the NT even if at the very end of his international career Messi finally got it done). However, I wouldn't have a huge problem with people who placed him at #3, but definitely I would *never* endorse his ranking above Pelé or Maradona.

    If Messi doesn't win this WC and retires regarding international caps with no trophies with his NT, then he'll be somewhere between #6 and #17; probably closer to the middle of this range than to the #6 position.

    So, it comes to this: I recognize him as one of the top 10, top 20 or top 30 players of all time (where to place him depends on what he does this Cup)... but I most definitely do not recognize him as the GOAT (not even if he wins this WC).
     
  11. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Some would say, why do I place such importance to winning the World Cup in my consideration of who deserves to be in the conversation for GOAT? Because that's the biggest stage, the ultimate prize, the burning desire for every professional football player. This sport has a celebration every four years, when three billion people around the world direct their attention to it: it's called the FIFA World Cup. Any aspiration at enduring, lasting glory above all other great players who ever played the game, involves winning when it's the biggest stage.

    Some Eurocentric or younger posters grant an exaggerated importance to tournaments like the Champions League and the Euro. Sure, they are great championships, and maybe even the quality of play is higher in the CL than what we usually see in the WC... but they are NOT the WC. They are NOT the biggest stage. They are continental competitions, not world competitions.

    When I say this, people say "but football is a team sport, Messi can't be held responsible for Argentina NT's failures." Huh, wait, so, we do need to consider him for GOAT solely because of his club success, when, gulp, Barcelona is *also* a team? So, his success in Champions League and La Liga count (although he also played for a *team* there, with a supporting cast handpicked from the best of the world), but when he fails with the Argentina NT, it doesn't count because it's a team sport???

    The above is just a device for sycophants and apologists to discount Messi's NT failures.

    But the reality is, the truly great players are good for BOTH club and country. They can adapt to different settings.

    Like I said before, just think logically:

    Messi + (with) Barcelona = great
    Messi - (without) Barcelona = not great

    So, what is the true ingredient for greatness here? Ask a mathematician. The answer will be: it's Barcelona, not Messi.
     
  12. Sir_Artur

    Sir_Artur Member

    Nov 21, 2014
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    If you have somethIng in contrary, feel free to share with us. I will be more than glad to be informed of flaws in my post.
     
  13. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Sure, sure, let me inform you: the flaw in your post resides in calling Maradona this word, "overrated", when his outstanding career and many accomplishments has fully earned him his correctly rated place among the greatest of all time. I'll take the opinion of all experts, all rankings, all lists, and the evidence of trophies earned on the field, over Sir_Artus' opinion that Maradona is overrated.

    So, you want something to the contrary, sure. I'll give you something. Argentine Primera División, Copa del Rey, Copa de La Liga, Serie A (twice), Coppa Italia, UEFA Cup, Supercoppa Italiana, FIFA World Youth Championship, FIFA World Cup, and this "short" list of accolades and achievements:
     
  14. Sir_Artur

    Sir_Artur Member

    Nov 21, 2014
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    LoL.
    Many footballers have accolades. Accolades, accomplishments or lack of them have nothing with my point.

    You should have read more carefully:
    "Maradona had good squad and "good team" behind him. This squad is usually served as "poor side Argentina." That is how overrated Maradona is, his teammates are diminished - degraded so that Maradona can look better."

    Is Maradona hailed as "someone who carried poor sides/average sided Argentina squad into Glory?" He is often (if not usually) described as such. When you look at his teammates, he had great teammates. His squad was not a poor side or average side. Now we see, Maradona is not only too overrated; Maradona is not only the most overrated player ever but he is mythicised as well. Heck, look at his fanboys, they even diminish Maradona's squad so that he can look better than he was. That is why I say "How overrated is Maradona."

    But even if you are gonna insist on the list of accomplishments, I can find you at least 3 players who have better CV than Maradona. Then, are you gonna say they should be ranked above Maradona?

    You misunderstood, you are confusing. I never reckon Maradona a rubbish or even an average player, he was very great player. He was excellent player but he never was someone he has been cracked up to be. That is what I mean by he is overrated.

    I never care what a certian individual says about something let that individual be an expert or master or ordinary person, I look at the reality.
     
  15. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    No, you are not looking at reality. You are merely looking at your own opinion, which contradicts the opinion of hundreds of experts (who likely know a lot more about the game than you do) and millions of spectators. Have you seen Maradona play, in person? I have, multiple times.

    I'm not a Maradona fan boy. I root for Brazil, so if anything, I'd have reasons to hate Maradona. But I'm not blind and I did see his outstanding skills, upfront and personal.

    You don't know what you are saying, and yes, your opinion is laughable. The accolades don't come in a vacuum. They are a *consensus* based on observation of reality. One can fool all people for a short time, or a few people for a long time, but one cannot fool all people for a long time, and Maradona's high quality is recognized by all people (except for the odd, rare, and far-fetched opinions like yours) along the years.

    And yes, he was well above the other members of that 1986 Argentina squad (again, I was there in person; I attended that Cup in Mexico, as well as the 1990 one in Italy), and he elevated a so-so Napoli squad to glory. Again, you simply don't know what you are saying. Thanks for playing. Good bye, now.
     
  16. Sir_Artur

    Sir_Artur Member

    Nov 21, 2014
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    My opinion is based on reality and I am looking at reality.
    My opinion contradicts the opinion of hundreds of experts? Which one, for example?
    My opinion is:
    Premise1: Maradona had good teammates in WC 1986, Argentina had good squad in WC86.
    Premise2: Many claim Maradona took poor/average side Argentina into world cup glory in 2986.
    Conclusion: Maradona is not only overrated, he is mythicised because Argentina did not have poor squad in that tournament, Argentina had great players and arguably better than any squad Argentina faced there.

    Which of these contradict experts? And what is wrong with contradicting experts?
    What do you mean by person? Watching live being in the stadium? No.

    Nor am I.
    I am not blind to see Maradona's outstanding skills. His dribling was amazing, he had great passing. I enjoy watching Maradona.
    You do not know what the point is and all of the points you are mentioning here are off-topic which is ridiculous.
    You are right, accolades do not come in a vacuum.
    And you are right Maradona's high quality is recognized by nearly all football fans who watched him.
    What do you mean by "opinions like yours?" Which opinion of mine you are talking about? Did I say something like "Maradona lacked high quality traits?" What is your point?
    And then? What is the point here?
    Did I say anything like "Maradona was below his teammates?" What did you mention these all for? What is the point? I agree that he was above the players he was playing with. As shown even from here, you fail to understand what the point is.
    My post did not say anything related to what you have been typing.
     
  17. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Confused? It's pretty simple, sonny.
    Your point: "Maradona is overrated" (your laughable opinion).
    Reality: No, he wasn't (the entire football world's opinion, based on facts).
    I have zero interest in continuing this conversation. Reply if you want to have the last word, but I won't be replying to you any longer, regarding this ridiculous claim of yours. When people are this misguided, there is no point in prolonging the debate. Good bye, kiddo. Have a nice day.
     
  18. Sir_Artur

    Sir_Artur Member

    Nov 21, 2014
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Yes, my opinion is Maradona is too overrated and the most overrated ever.
    Reality: Yes, he is. (if the entire universe contradicts it, let the whole universe produce an arguement against the point or against https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/pb...-21-june-2018-r.2084460/page-22#post-36784002 )
    Great. Thanks for quitting typing without even comprehending the point. Thank you.
     
  19. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    OK, one more time. I won't address your ridiculous claim itself (like I said; I did it sufficiently already), but I will address this even more ridiculous idea, that somehow I failed to understand your point. This is not rocket science or some sort of complicated academic thesis in physics or something, kiddo. Your point is extremely simple and I fully understood it, of course. You *think* that Maradona is overrated and people downplay the skills of his teammates to make him look better. Frankly, do you actually think that there is any difficulty in getting your lame point? Yeah, of course I understood it. Get down from your high horse. Now, I hope this website has a blocking function which I will use on you if it exists, because your ridiculous points are causing me hives. I have an allergy to lame points. Good bye for the last time. [Edit - yes, there is an Ignore function; done; welcome to my Ignore list.]
     
  20. Sir_Artur

    Sir_Artur Member

    Nov 21, 2014
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Oh, great. Congrats, you have finally got it.
    Then, why have you been writing unrelated points like Maradona having excellent skills as if I have written something like "Maradona lacked skills?"

    If you quit, thank you. It means I will never ever need to deal with your comments based on your lame comprehension.
     
  21. Christina99

    Christina99 Member+

    Sep 22, 2013
    Buenos Aires
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Too bad that is forbidden to post in this forums because, when you give your football opinion, some posters here will attack you with things related to your personal life. I have many users on ignore, but it seems I forgot to ignore some of them who will attack you right after you say "A" just cause you dare post something they don't agree with. Personal attacks I mean. This behaviour should be punished somehow because I know Im not the only user scared to post in the forums outside the one of my country, afraid of the agressive users that will use any ocassion to attack you with personal things.

    Seriously, mods, can a person attack you alluding to the country you were born in or the team you cheer for when you just were defending a player? Is this allowed? Its not the first time that it happened to me, but i put all those people on ignore. Now I realize in a forum about futbol anyone has the right to voice their opinion about futbol, but NO ONE should attack anyone for their personal life or they country they were born in. This should be punished and at least redcarded. Xenophonia, misogyny and racism shouldn't be allowed in this forum and its a shame this keep happening and some of us can even write that we like a player without being attacked by some lunatics. Seriously.
     
  22. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    It's true that Messi is not a big runner. That's been more the case as he has gotten older. In the Clasico in December there were stats showing he ran very little and still he influenced the game.

    However, you're pointing out a very unfair example. (1) It was obviously a very frustrating game and the game was already lost. (2) Think about the news coming out about the in fighting before the game. That shit weights on you. (3) He actually sprinted back to try and help defend the counter, which he seldom does, and it isn't even his responsibility to do so. He only stops right at the end when the first shot is taken. Mascherano actually also freezes at the top of the box.
     
  23. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Jul 29, 2003
    USA
    Everything you wrote is true - however, if he is the team captain, he must in addition to doing his very best (which admittedly and in fairness may not always be enough) set an example to his teammates. Team leadership isn't barking commands for teammates to be in position or to pay attention.

    That Mascherano also froze is no excuse for what Messi did. The game was already lost, and with his team (possibly) about to be eliminated, is this the last image he'd like to have in the World Cup?

    Not every great club player won the World Cup, but at the very least what image does one want to leave of oneself? Romario cried and wept for missing both 1998 and 2002, but he can look back at his career and say that he "left while on top."
     
  24. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    There were 2 other plays I saw him going back and fighting for a ball deep in defense which is something he doesn't typically do. I can just crop that out and use that as a counter example. And again, that's not his role in the team. You're picking one extreme case at the end of the game where actually he did sprint back but stopped at the end where the play looked hopeless. I've seen great defenders often freeze in those situations where there is a shot and don't follow through on the rebound. Happens literally all the time.

    Ronaldo is being touted as a great leader compared to Messi, yet I can show you the Spain game right before Spain's 3rd goal where he reaches for a ball in midfield and misses it, then he stands there like a tree pouting while Spain passes the ball literally right around him because he was just standing. He could have at least filled spaced and closed down a passing lane. And the game was tied at this point. But that's not his job.

    It's a fair point that Messi moves little without the ball. His main strength is making plays with the ball. Could probably show more effort in that department. But that's just a very unfair example your using.
     
  25. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #575 Paul Calixte, Jun 25, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2018
    Get up, Neymar.

    "Boring" is, almost without doubt, the softest thing one can call another person in the English language; and a term that you used yourself, so we can rule that out of consideration.

    If you're upset because of someone bringing up your own fandom: to the best of my knowledge, it is no new revelation from what you have already shared on BigSoccer (i.e. your identity hasn't been compromised). However, I can see the concerns about it being inflammatory, hence it and related posts being deleted.
     
    Century's Best repped this.

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