Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Patriotism- more harm than good? 1) Good, maybe the country's around the world are finally figuring out that with unemployment rates so high, they can't afford to have more people sitting around and doing nothing is a reason why it's hard for immigrants to move. I guess we better takes some notes here. And besides, who cares about your little UN "one world" mentality articles? 2) As an immigrant to this country, I disagree. Perhaps if you lived in Poland during the communist control you would think otherwise, what a democratic system it was over there, you should anything bad about the commies they'd kill you or put you in jail. 3) There are many reasons for the low numbers of European immigrants now. Including this "diversity for the sake of diversity" bull crap which makes any person that isn't a white man from any where outside America pushed back in line while people of color are given "minority" status. 4) Yeah, I'm sure all immigrants come here just to work. Just ask all the the one's here who traffic drugs, take welfare checks, get free hosipitalization, and even vote in elections though they aren't citizens. Yes, they are all peaceful, ask the dead Border Patrol agent who died in Arizona during a shootout with an illegal immigrant drug dealer.
Why stop within a nation's, artificial borders. Why not extend your love to all humans, to your planet? Humans should not need aliens to express love for their species and planet. The problem with expressing "love" for one nation/tribe over another is it implies that a member of your tribe is more important than a member of another tribe. Sure that's how we feel about our families but families rarely have violent feuds while larger tribal units go to war.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Patriotism- more harm than good? Tried to post this earlier but it doesn't seem to have showed up, so I'll give it another shot. Yeah, but you can make a damn good case that the US is the greatest country on the planet, for all the reasons I stated above plus the fact that often times we know what is best for the rest of the world. Paternalistic, yes, arrogant, yes, but it often turns out for the best in the end--remember that, had it not been for us and the Brits, Europe would have surrendered first to Nazism and then to Stalinism. Also, I should mention that I have lived in another country. Admittedly only for 3 weeks, but I was living with a German family, going to school with the kids, reading German newspapers and watching German TV (being pissed off that I was outside Bonn and didn't get to go to Munich for the 1860-Leeds match). It was only for 3 weeks, so not a complete immersion, but I was thinking in German by the time I got on the plane to come home. Not that I wasn't speaking English to the other kids from my school I was there with, or to the guy I saw in Trier wearing a University of Tennessee (my mom's alma mater) ballcap and a Titans sweatshirt, or to the sketchy-looking guy from Glasgow I ran into at a train station, but it was still pretty cool. That's actually one of the things that I liked best about BC. I'm probably going to major in something having to do with US-Asian relations (might even create my own major, "Asia and the Cold War" or something along those lines) so I am looking to study for a semester in Hong Kong (can't do a full year because of NROTC commitments). I wish I could go in spring of my sophomore year, but looks like I'll be going fall of my junior year instead--don't want to miss the only BC-Notre Dame game at home during my 4 years (fvcking NBC bastards), but I'm scared to death of the possibility that US-Mexico might be played in Foxboro and I'd be out of the country. I'd also look at a semester in Vietnam, they don't have that in the book I got tho--maybe they'll add it, if not I'll probably be able to spend a week or so in 'Nam if I study in HK. Only problem is, the Hong Kong program is listed as being for CSOM students and I'm in Arts and Sciences. I should still be able to pull it off because of my major, if not I'll probably go to Germany, Ireland, Australia, England, or Brazil. Alex
Why the fvck should I love someone whose singular goal in life is to kill me? Don't read much Shakespeare, do ya? Alex
Okay not all humans but humanity in general. For example it's the world's responsibility to actually act on "Never Again" by preventing the carnage in Rwanda, Kosovo, the Middle East, etc. instead of hiding behind "sovereignty" and "national interest". 9-11 was an attack on humanity but every terrorist act is an attack on humanity. Unfortunately dominant tribes always get top priority. Actually Shakespeare is one of my favorite authors. But I'm talking about now. Violent family feuds aren't nearly as common as violent wars between larger groups.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Patriotism- more harm than good? Took a while to abolish slavery though. And then there's the racial segregation in the south. It wasn't that much of a great place for some.
You don't, though, and that's one of the things wrong with how people think nowadays. Apparently, we're all supposed to be "very 'umble." We're supposed to sell ourselves short. Just look at the world of sports. I, for once, am sick of coaches saying tripe like 'They're a solid team and we're not going to underestimate them' when everyone knows the teams are so far apart, they shouldn't even be playing each other. And then, when a coach or a player has the balls to tell the truth, everyone will brand them as being arrogant. Here's a little example for my HS days. My basketball team was playing another school in the city final and couple of days before the game I was asked by the local paper to comment on it. I proceded to berate the other team and promised to embarass the kid whose job was to guard me(I was a PG). Having played the team before and having grown up in the same neigbourhood as their pointguard, I knew there was no way in hell we would lose the game. My comments, however, were taken badly by just about everyone and the whole bruahaha lasted for weeks, until the end of the school year. My principal was pissed, my coach was pissed, the other school was pissed, the HS athletics board was pissed. Somewhere along the line, everyone seemed to have forgotten that I scored just under 50 points in the game and that it was a total blowout and that more importantly, the only thing I did was tell the truth. Go figure.
No, you pulled a Muhammad Ali. It's not false modesty to say, "there a good team, and we're not going to underestimate them." In the case of the Rams, it was good sense. They knew the Patriots were perfectly capable of beating them. Mike Martz said, "they're the best team we've played all year," after beating them in Week 10. I say Muhammad Ali because he really created this culture of disrespect in sports. The Red Army Team admitted they had no respect for the US Team before their match. Look what it cost them. You always say that because, if you don't, it's all of the more embarassing if you lose.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Patriotism- more harm than good? just out of curiosity, how old are you? what do you remember about "communist" poland. i assure you that the VAST majority of emmigrants left for economic, not political reasons. i spent a year in a refugee camp in italy, while it was detrermined if we have a legitimate claim for political asylum. a booming black market business there, was the creation of your history of "political dissent". there were people who knew exactly what you needed to say at the american embassy in order to "pass the test", and they made a living preparing you for the interviews. out of all the polish people i met in italy, my dad was the ONLY one we knew that actually spent time in prison, and was involved with solidarity. as for "commies killing people", that's a gross exageration. while there was repression, and there were periods of exceptional repression (early 50's, early 70's), things weren't that bad. a lot of the active members of solidarity were given a one way ticket out of the country. as for small time "collaborators" like my dad, you could expect your house turned over now and then, and maybe a short stay behind bars. not much worse than what you could get for having a little too much fun at football . i'm not trying to defend a corrupt regime, but don't kid yourself, if not for the fact that the country was going bankrupt due to outrageous interest rates imposed by western banks, solidarity would have never succeded. in fact they wouldn't have existed. the strikes of 1980 were sparked by rising prices and stagnat wages. political considerations were an afterthought. solidarity was a socialist movement, whose core believes included a centrally controlled market, and an adherence to marxist principles. their beef was with an incompetent regime, who couldn't steer the country out of economic crisis, while the leaders built themselves summer villas, and shopped in their own special stores. again, with few exceptions, polish emmigration was of economic nature. their's no need to get all teary eyed, thinking of those millions of your poor countrymen fighting the system and being forced to leave under threat of terror.
The problem is that they don't really think that. A hockey player who doesn't go into every game thinking he's going to win it is not going to be much of a player. Why, then, do you have to say things you don't really mean? Why don't you say what you're really thinking and what often most of us are thinking? What's so bad about that?
It's all a case of inter-personal relationships on a bigger scale. If everyone went round telling people exactly what they thought, the world would be an even angrier place than it already is. Do you have many friends? If not I think I've found a reason
Nothing at all. Ali did it(fvcking good for him), and so does the Greatest Helmetball Coach In History...Steve Spurrier.
Yeah, uh, another term under Dubya should correct that oversight, the way things are going. Comparing US to Al-Qaeda? Go ahead. Blindly supporting US warmongering? Whatever. But THIS statement PISSES ME OFF. The list of coaches whose clipboards Spurrier isn't fit to tote is longer than the Tropic of Capricorn. Spurrier. Jesus on toast. I can't effin' WAIT for the Washington Racist Nicknames to go toes up this year.
You're missing the point. For a period of almost 10 years, Ali was the best and everyone knew it. Why did people get pissed off when he said it? He was only saying what we were all thinking. Ditto Lakers this year. Everyone, even the most rabid Nets fans knew the Lakers were going to walk all over the Nets. Why the hell did the entire Lakers organization have to patronize us by pretending they didn't know who was going to win and saying things that implied Nets stood a chance? Why didn't Phil Jackson go ahead and say what we were all thinking and that we could all go ahead and put our lives' savings on a Lakers sweep, because that's the only thing that could've happened?
I hardly think either of our countries have anything to be proud of when it comes to conduct towards native population. Then again, we should all probably blame the British Empire for that. They started the job, we're just carrying it on.
I'm not missing your point. I do fully understand what you're telling me. I do feel however that you're not listening to mine. I'm not saying stop acting Ali-esque at all costs because it's an inherently evil way of behaving. By all means carry on if that's how you want to do things. I'm just stating that it wouldn't necessarily the best course of action if one is to retain all ones friends. It's just a case of sometimes seeing the world through other people's eyes. I wouldn't want anyone acting 'Ali-esque' towards me or even in my presence (infact I cringe whenever I see on TV some god-awful middle-weight boxer mouthing off about what he's going to do to his opponent - and subsequently gets weaved into the canvas), and so I wouldn't do it to anyone else. A sort of 'do as you would be done by' situation. Can't one be good at something without ramming it down the throats of others?
Yup, the visor slingin', trash talkin', fun 'n gunnin' wunderkind up from Gainesville. Daaaa mannnn... "Yuh cain't spell Citrus without 'yew tee' ". Classic. Hey, at least he got rid of the most offensive logo. Snyder had it last year, can't credit anyone but Coach Superior. Realistically, I think he'll go 10-6 or 9-7. But he's gonna make pro helmetball interesting again, bet on that. BTW, I'm sure you already knew who Tommie Smith was.
Spurrier got out because he knew Lou Holtz was a year away from making the same speech about Florida as he used to about Navy - "They're a tough opponent with a lot of pride that we can't afford to take lightly." Then BLAMMO. Jeez, I totally forgot that conversation. I think "What if there were no nationalist differences" is a lot like "What if there were no religious differences" - people would still fight hideous wars anyway, the only difference would be the excuses they use.
Man, please. USC is in Los Angeles. And Carolina's in Chapel Hill. Holtz is in Columbia, which might as well have been Colombia as long as Spurrier was at Florida. There will always be differences (and the wars that result from them) as long as we don't follow olckicker's advice and put an end to tribalism- a change I don't ever see happening. Not that I've helped the situation any- it's just what Homo Sapiens Sapiens does, IMO.
I think they're still going to have the old logo on the road once the season starts. At least that is what I remember reading when they made the switch.