Re: Re: Patriot Missile hits RAF Jet very sad, indeed. i have not heard anything about the pilots and whether they survived or not, is there any update regarding the pilots? i can only hope that they survived...
Re: Re: Re: Patriot Missile hits RAF Jet Nope, no news. And in this case, no news is most definitely bad news. It's hard not being cynical of the US given past experiences...
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Patriot Missile hits RAF Jet Well, in general really. well, sort of, it's hard to express. It's hard not to be cynical of the US ability to use all their toys and gizmos and jiggery-pokery properly, when this thing happens. In GW1, the US killed about as many UK troops as Iraq did and it was the single biggest group death of British forces during the whole war. It happened infamously to the Canadians in Afghanistan. It's just a bit galling to hear about how technologically wonderful it all is, when things like this happen. When technology can't tell between a friendly big-ass plane, and an enemy rocket, then matters need to be addressed. Yes, I know in the heat of war, things like this will happen - but at the same time it's difficult not to let my automatic suspicion of certain things American come to the fore. Of course at the root of it all I'm just peed off that some more of our forces have died (and an expensive plane trashed) totally unnecessarily.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Patriot Missile hits RAF Jet you are suspicious of what? i am not sure what the numbers were, but i know that there were a lot of american friendly fire incidents in GW1 as well...it is unfortunate that these things happen, but like you say...in the heat of war bad things happen and it does suck to see anyone die regardless of the situation. technology is great, but it is not perfect. do you know how grateful i am of the technology i have at my hands in the form of my computer, but also how many times the computer crashes and gets an error that causes the loss of data. i know it is not the same b/c lifes are lost but nothing is perfect; technology included...
An American reporter stated that the Tornado in question did not have the friend or foe electronic identification system. Hold your tongue until you have the facts!!! Mr. Cam welcomes your assistance, however, you must maintain your perspective even when everyone else loses theirs.
The Brits are just hasving crummy luck. Have they lost a combat casualty yet? It's all plane crashes and friendly fire.
The thing is it was a British reporter that said it was fitted with the said system. It's not terribly clear and in the end it's down to who one believes the most. Given the fact that the US military has already motioned that they wouldn't accept any responsibility for what happened, I'm not surprised that the technology is remaining mysteriously blame-free. Still, it's happened, let's get this war over with and have the endless legal ramifications (that the A-10 pilots got out of in 1991) later on.
This really pisses me off about the yanks. Why do they always do this ? Whats a matter with them ? I bet it WONT be the last such case either
Is it really that easy to be ignorant?? I guess Foxhound proves it so... It's terrible what happened, but for now let's hold all judgements on what really happened. You don't see us blaming the Brits for the Navy soldier killed over the Gulf when the two Brit helos collided. It was an accident, as is this one.
Better that the American and British barristers fight each other than our citizens and armed forces. maczebus, do the Brits take the Shakespearean view of barristers?
No there is no comaprison with the example you made. This happened because Americans are too friggin GUN-HO ! Itchy trigger fingers - why dont you just ease it up.
ignorant rant... if those Brits would have had their friend or foe signal on then this wouldn't have happened /ignorant rant You see, learn all the facts before you make ignorant statements. Oh and it's gung-ho
Foxhound, read this and this and think with your brain and not your heart before you say this and this!
Nor us when an ill prepared, aged US Navy Sea Knight crashed killing 8 Royal Marines earlier this week. In GW1 half our fatalities and 24% of the US fatalities were due to the US. And the accidents keep coming - things might have improved, but it's not a good start to this conflict. Still, let bygones be bygone - until the next time. As others have said, let's leave the finger pointing proper, until after the fog has lifted at least.
We prefer it to the Lionel Hutz image. We don't like lawyers, we haven't embraced them quite so fondly to our bosom as you guys have.
Those numbers do not necessarily mean anything except that we've done a good job avoiding being killed by the enemy. Obviously we need to try to limit the accidents, but I'm not sure how to judge whether we're doing a good job at this. With so many planes and helicopters flying about, a certain number of crashes are inevitable. The Patriot worries me more because it's not clear how useful it is to begin with. Shooting down your own (allied) plane is not good! I'm less willing to accept that type of mistake.
A general comment on friendly fire incidents. Based on my memory of having grown up in a military family during the Vietnam War (there were plenty of them in Vietnam--I have very clear memories of video footage of a US ground commander desperately screaming "Stop it, God-dammit" into his radio as his troops got bombarded by US artillery), they are relatively common and probably inevitable. You've got young men in chaotic situations in charge of extremely potent weapons. I'd argue that friendly fire incidents are even more likely in mixed chain of command situations like this coalition, and the communications technology mismatches between US and other militaries were being pointed out well before this war was started. Finally, I don't think there's a basis for for saying friendly fire incidents are typically American, but for the fact that American forces have predominated in the joint operations over the past couple of decades. US has done most of the shooting, thus statistically are most likely to have generated most of the friendly fire incidents.
Good post, bungadiri. Also, the fact that weapons are so much more lethal nowadays makes any mistakes that much more disastrous. Unfortunate, but true. Let's hope we can get by these mistakes and limit their number as this conflict continues...
Instead of making all these EXCUSES, what can't you be man enough and say SORRY ? Or are Yanks incapable of this ? It's no wonder world opinion is so negative towards you
If I were remotely responsible for anything connected to the incident I would apologize. Not to you, but to those directly impacted. I'm not, so I won't. Out of curiosity, why on earth do you expect to get any satisfaction from an apology so issued on a soccer-related message board anyway? I will say this. As I've said elsewhere, I'm an Army brat. While I'm extremely grateful that my father came home from the wars in which he served, I lived in communities to which plenty of fathers did not return. I had a friend who literally tried to climb the walls of his bedroom the night he learned his father had been shot down over Laos. This is what I remember when I hear of any wartime casualities, including friendly fire incidents. And this is one of the things that has fueled my opposition to this war, which I regard as avoidable and in the present circumstances wrong. My regret over the loss of these (and all the other) lives is deep and genuine.