http://biz.yahoo.com/djus/030331/0912000807_3.html Paypal was nailed for violating the PATRIOT Act - because some offshore gambling outfits sent/received money thru Paypal. Can we finally put to rest the idea that the PATRIOT Act is about counter-terrorism? This was horrible legislation that drastically curtailed our freedoms in the name of stopping "terrorism" (which, incidently, is just about anything the US Gov't doesn't like nowadays)... and they want to extend the bill. Sigh...
You're right it starts with some outfit like paypal, and gradually works its way up. It's a slippery slope. Eventually people are going to get nailed for being affiliated with the wrong party. Oh sorry, forgot we already had McCarthyism.
same old song and dance There is little doubt that the patriot act is designed to help keep bush or cheney or whatever corporate puppet is up next for election in power, by spying on dissents and arresting or curtailing free speech and association and assemble....I think the rich learned that they do not want another democrat in office, all that peace hurt their military defense businesses, a balanced economy hurt their plundering of americas resources, and low umemployment meant they couldnt get workers for minimum wage....the rich learned and will do whatever illegal things they must to keep their boys in power from now on.....
Foosinho, why do you hate our freedoms? If you're not with us, you're with Paypal. We will either bring Paypal to justice, or bring justice to Paypal. Seriously, any "small government Republicans" want to take THIS particular shot off the ladies' tee? If Clinton/Reno had done this, you would be out in the woods with Ted Nugent picking off mailmen and forest rangers as we speak. If you're not going to criticize the junta over this, could you at least in your own mind draw a line and say, okay, when they do this, they will have gone too far? Just so you don't go into complete Orwell overload?
OK I'll bite... The Patriot Act and the proposed Patriot Act II are WRONG! As a Republican I am shamed by what our President has done, I for one have already made up my mind about 2004. I will vote for a small party candidate. I just wish some Republican had the balls to stand up to Bush and challenge him in 2004.
Agreed. McCain seems to be have the most sanity of all GOP'ers and he spent seven years in the Hanoi Hilton. Really saying something there.
The wonderful thing of US presidential election is that you can actually experience time traveling every 4 years.
This is pretty ridiculous, but let's wait and see if they actually try to enforce the law against PayPal. My guess is they won't. I won't comment on Patriot Act in general, since I don't know anything about it other than what I've read from unabashedly biased sources. Alex
I wouldn't have a problem with this action, provided that the FBI also goes after Western Union, American Express (Moneygram), Neteller... and any and all radio stations and newspapers that advertise (in broad daylight) these "illegal" offshore books. Just be consistent...
who wags whom i would be happier if the FBI went after companies that deal with terrorists or fund or give them supplies, like every company the bush family owns is invovled with, cheny's halliburton, and all oil companies....but easier to bust head shops and pornographers then actually catch terrorist, right ashcroft....
The problem is, calling those companies terrorists is laughable. The other problem is, invoking the PATRIARCH Act takes away a lot of the rights that they would ordinarily take for granted. How is Western Union a threat to the nation?
They're not. They can be used, along with the other companies I mentioned, to fund offshore wagering accounts... Didn't mean to equate them to terrorists, as it wasn't my intent...
I didn't want to start antoher thread I found this on Yahoo! http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20030403/ts_nm/life_protests_dc_1 Discuss.
I know this isn't the spirit of this thread, so I apologize for getting off track. My feeling is that if you're doing something illegal, it doesn't matter what law is used to help catch you. In PayPal's case, they were acting as an intermediary between the offshore books and gamblers in the states who were violating the Federal Wire Wager Act. It was the Patriot Act that allowed for the gathering of evidence that helped stop these transfers that were being made for the sole pupose of violating federal law. In any event, it only looks like they're going to have to pay a fine and they won't be able to fund offshore accounts any longer. Most credit card issuers already have a policy of not allowing transfers to these books, which is why PayPal and Neteller are needed in the first place. A form of money eLaundering. Now PayPal's been fined, I heard Firepay was also caught and fined, and I suspect that Neteller will be next. From the government's standpoint, if the Patriot Act allows them to gather evidence of illegal activity that they otherwise wouldn't have obtained, why not use it? The feds have been trying to stop the flow of money to and from these sites for years (if for no other reason than they're not getting any tax revenue), now they've got their authority to do so. I can't feel sorry for PayPal, and it's not as if they're being shut down anyway. They're still free to do all the legal business that they can handle. Meanwhile, the other companies I mentioned in my previous posts are already finding ways to circumvent the law...
dont arrest me for this The problem however is that off shore betting is not terrorism, and as we all know gambling law overall is carried out in a totally obscure way.In texas where gambling is illegal, yet you can play bingo, and do dogs and ponies and in some counties 8 liners....so why use a law only for terrorism to break up gambling or bong sellers or pornographers or who-ever is on Ashcrofts bible thumping tour that week. Again, why isnt it used to figure out which one of bush's golf buddies handled enron so badly or worldcom..... the yahoo article only illustrates again that conservatives everywhere (even on these boards), really do not want good intellectual debate, they want to label anything that is against them as terrorism and jail or kill or maim whoever disagrees (kinda like our good friend, saddam)