Actually, aspects of the stories aren't. This has been front page news in the San Jose Mercury (Tillman's home town paper) both yesterday and today. Whoever started the thread could've used better wording, though, because the new stories are about what exactly happened. The primary revelation of yesterday's article, although I don't think the point was hammered home hard enough, was that there are some teflon senior officers in Tillman's unit's chain of command. Against the advice of Tillman's CO, the senior officers back at the base made a horrific decision. Here's yesterday's (long) Mercury News article, which is actually by a WaPo reporter: How Pat Tillman died by Steve Coll, Washington Post Today, the Merc has another headline story stating that "investigations of Afghan 'friendly fire' incident lead to even more contradictions", this time by a LATi writer: No sure answer on Tillman's death by David Zucchino, LA Times (NOTE: If either article prompts you for an email/password, use bigsoccer1@bigsoccer.com & bigsoccer1) All this said, and nothing against Tillman, his comrades or his family/friends, I really resent how there is so much attention upon his death. Even Tillman, if what people say about him is true, would bristle that his death is given one iota more consideration than the death of any other soldier. And, if there were mistakes made within Tillman's chain of command, the Army and the UCMJ should deal with it privately.
Meanie, while Tillman would not have approved the extra attention, it is not really surprising. As much as he wanted to be, he was not just an ordinary guy who enlisted. The life he walked away from made sure he never could be.
True, but I just hope every FF incident (or other SNAFUs leading to US deaths) is being investigated to this extent. You're right, he wasn't ordinary. Not sure if he was super hard-corps and a great leader, but it looked like he was thrown into the forefront early on in his career. He enlisted as an E4 (rare, but probably because of the degree/age combo), and was a guidon bearer and platoon leader from the getgo in BT. Wonder if he was really that much better of a soldier than everyone else. Independent of who he was and what his background was, he was still a cherry in Afghanistan, regardless of his somewhat unearned rank. I guess "resent" was the wrong choice of word in my previous post. I do feel that anyone who walks away from a professional career -- be it jock, accountant, lawyer, mechanic -- to serve is a hero. Just wish some of these others' stories got equal coverage.
If you feel that way, you might find the following website pretty interesting. http://www.hoo-ah.net/ In his own words, here's a description of the guy: "I attended a very prestigious Ivy League college, worked for two years at a large investment bank on Wall Street, got engaged to the "right" type of woman, went to the "right" business school and got the "right" job immediately out of school. I was the poster boy for the upper-class WASP success track. Everyone--my fiancée, my parents, my friends--they were all happy for me and reveled in my success. I was making in the mid six-figures, being groomed for upper, upper management, went to all the best parties, knew all the best people, had an expensive brownstone in New York City and an idyllic life. I was 27 years old and had it all--yet I despised everything about my existence and every minute of my life." He walked away from all that and signed an 18-X contract, which is the Special Forces pipeline. Very interesting read.
This doesn't change anything about Tillman. It's about how this kind of thing can be prevented from happening. If it happened to Tillman, and it took six months for it to come out, how many others have been killed or wounded because of the same thing? And if Tillman wasn't famous, how much longer would it have been before we heard about it?
Forever (literally, as in you'd have never heard about it to this detail), which is part of my problem with it.
So what's "news" is that someone made a terrible mistake. I would venture to say that in any friendly fire incident, most probably someone made a serious mistake.
Umm, read the linked articles (at least the ones I provided this morning). It's not news that he was killed by friendly fire, it's the details that are surfacing that are "news", at least to some. YMMV as to whether those details should be surfacing in the media.
Exactly. And isn't "Well, if not for [ ], we'd never have heard about [ ]" THE single most dangerous thing in an ostensible democracy?
Being investigated and being reported are obviously different things. His fame is the obvious reason the investigation has been reported to the degree that it has. I am not sure what you mean. There was absolutely nothing unusual about this assignment or his role in it. He was in long enough to complete basic, AIT, Airborne and Ranger schools. He was doing what a Ranger team leader does. He enlisted E4 due to the degree. Age is not a factor. When I was in basic/AIT, guidon bearer a leadership positions rotated throughout the unit to give many people experience, especially those who had enlisted E3 or E4. I doubt he was the exclusive guidon bearer, but it was certainly an honor to carry it at graduation. Considering his approach to life and football, I don't think it is a stretch to guess he was an outstanding soldier. I would not describe an Airborne Ranger -- not just regimental, but one with the Tab -- a cherry. And his rank was according to objective standards. There was nothing unusual about Tillman being an E4.
The reminds me how some British soldiers were a lot more afraid of getting killed by Americans than by Iraqis.
The reminds me how some British soldiers were a lot more afraid of getting killed by Americans than by Iraqis.
Of course, this sensible and appropriate attitude leaves no room for the "high-minded" moral outrage of Karl Keller--except on BS, where he can let his smug self-righteousness flourish unabated, without any understanding of the broader implications. But then again, he brings new meaning to the word "narrow." Note: Not all my own work
What, FOX News prevented details from coming out? I would think the Pentagon would be more interested in keeping it quiet rather than FOX. And pretty much any "friendly fire" incident is a screw up by someone up the chain of command. What about the Special Ops guys outside the prison in Afghanistan who had a 2,000 lb. bomb dropped right on their heads? The details are coming out now because the reporters are more interested in the story, because it was Tillman, not because Rupert Murdoch is stonewalling investigations left and right.
No, that union symbolises the reality of what news is for American citizens that rely on traditional sources (i.e., NOT cyber-cowboys and cowgirls), how far it is from investigative journalism of any sort, and the sad state that is that investigatory vacuum stood up next to the vast resources, the missed opportunities, of the nation.
Mel, did you take a blow to the head this weekend? I see the point you're trying to make, but it's a reach within the context of this thread... Remember: hit the other guy with the forearm to the back of the helmet, don't let him do it to you..
11 tackles, 8 hurries...we still lost though. How we know things, all TYPES of news, is subject to the frames of the institutions that claim to provide it.
Did the forearm club keep them off your knees, though? THAT'S the real news! (Nice game. It seems you spent a good amount of time in their backfield)
Mel, you are looking for a ghost here that just does not exist. The efforts in both Afghanistan and Iraq have been covered by embedded reporters as well as more traditional coverage as no other military efforts in the history of this nation. You are letting your own pre-disposition hurt your cred here in a big way here. Yes, Pat Tillman was/is a big story because of his celebrity and that certainly creates more interest. However, a friend of mine was killed by FF during Vietnam and there was a thorough report that came back to his parents about 4 months after the tragedy. He was just a kid from the farm, certainly no celeb. Regretable as it is, this is not new or noteable, nor is the media to blame here in some way. On the contrary, the development in reporting and the diversity of coverage has given this much greater exposure than we would have heard 30 years ago.
Mel, I'm shocked you would play football. Don't you know that violent ground acquisition games such as football are in fact a crypto-fascist metaphor for nuclear war? Anyways, any info on an Edinburgh team? What would you say the level of competition is? And BlueMeanie- Grunt touched on it, but left out the fact that he had already seen combat in Iraq as well as done a previous tour in Afghanistan. Hardly a cherry.