Pat Noonan vs. Damani Ralph?

Discussion in 'MLS: General' started by lurking, Oct 31, 2003.

  1. lurking

    lurking Member+

    Feb 9, 2002
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Who would you want on your team?

    Who should be Rookie of the Year?

    Guys have been eerily similair in terms of production, with Ralph lighting it up early, Noonan late. I'm pretty sure Ralph will be the winner, but I dont think its all that much of a slam dunk.

    There stat lines:
    PLAYER GP GS MIN G A PTS SHT SOG
    Damani Ralph 25 22 1985 11 6 28 91 36
    Pat Noonan 28 17 1646 10 7 27 44 24
     
  2. soccertim

    soccertim Member

    Mar 29, 2001
    Mass
    I don't know if he's eligible, but I think the best rookie was Shalrie Joseph. He and Cancela are considered among the best central midfield duos in the league. Noonan played about 1/3 of his time at wide midfielder. In his time at forward (about 12 games) he had 9 goals and 5 assists, and led the league in scoring over the last 2 months of the season. Ralph, who is going to win the award, has only 1 goal since August.
     
  3. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Give me Clark any day of the week
     
  4. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    While Noonan has played really well for the last two months of the season, he didn't have much the rest of the season.
    Ralph played well for the majority of the season, and you could say that with him playing so well teams doubled him up or did something different with him towards the end of the season, plus the Fire rested him for a few games as well.
    A question I might ask is does Noonan keep this pace up in the playoffs, or do you think teams will try something different to keep him from scoring?
     
  5. mpruitt

    mpruitt Member

    Feb 11, 2002
    E. Somerville
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    it's been awesome seeing Noonan do well this year, but Ralph has had some amazing goals and his share of OMG moments.
     
  6. lurking

    lurking Member+

    Feb 9, 2002
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    First, Noonan has been streaky all year. Hes had huge games this year, at the beginning of the season as an assist man though. Then again he was slotted in the midfield.

    Second, Noonan has been a sub much more than Ralph. So Ralph has produced more, but in 300 more minutes.

    Third, Noonan pretty much has been the primary goal scoring threat for New England since Twellman went down, and hes actually been hotter since then. Unless you think Darrio Fabbro is of equal ability and reputation as Ante Razov, I think its hard to argue that Ralph has been cheated in the strike partner category.

    Fourth, how "highlight reel" suitable a player is didnt count for anything last time I checked. McBride rarely if ever does things that Id say were all that highlight worthy (ouside of their signifigance) he thrives by doing all the little things well so that they add up to big things that look deceptively easy. Despite that, Id say Noonan has a couple of worthy efforts, although ironicly the ones that come to my mind are assists.

    Now granted his recent production may just be that Noonan owns the Metros and is mediocre against everyone else, or it could be that hes just happened to pick the Metros for who he played most when he got hot, hard to say.

    I like posing this question not because I dont think Ralph is a worthy choice, but I have to wonder why hes such an overwhelming choice. Because really, other than the fact that Ralph entered MLS fans conciousness first in terms of what they have done for their team they have been very similair.
     
  7. voros

    voros Member

    Jun 7, 2002
    Parts Unknown
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Noonan did rack up three of his goals against a questionable Metrostars team last week in a game treated very much like a pre-season exhibition. I don't know how much that should count, but it should count for something.
     
  8. soccertim

    soccertim Member

    Mar 29, 2001
    Mass
    After game one vs the Mutts, I'll restate what I said. Noonon's had an incredible strike rate, no matter which defenders the Mutts use, but Joseph really gets it done for the Revs.

    Say all you want about Noonan laying a hat trick on the Mutts last week, but Ralph's done very little since August...
     
  9. RevsNumberONE

    RevsNumberONE New Member

    Oct 22, 2003
    New Jersey
    You guys really need to stop knocking Noonan. Hes been a big part of the reason New England has gotten so far. Most of his goals have been crutial goals in many games. So what that he scored a hat trick in the last game of the season against the Metros? He had the first goal (crutial) and the third goal (game winning.) Damani Ralph is a good player too, but Noonan deserves a little more consideration...
     
  10. Jacen McCullough

    Nov 23, 1998
    Maryland
    Noonan has played very well, but the reality is that the vast majority of his goals (including the aforementioned hat trick against the Metro C team) have been scored against ONE team. Ralph's output has been much more balanced. I still give Noonan credit, and place him in that 2nd tier of rookies (with players like Clark and Dunivant), but Ralph is in a class by himself.
     
  11. Wizardscharter

    Wizardscharter New Member

    Jul 25, 2001
    Blue Springs, MO
    Ralph is the RoTY.

    If you ask me who I take going forward with my franchise, I take Noonan with some hesitation. Nooonan has shown the ability to do multiple things. He also has that certain unquantifyable air that seems to make others more stable and sometimes better. Ralph has the incredible killer instinct and physical quality. To me that is more valuable as a commodity, but also more fleeting. Noonan's intangibles separate him as he can obviously score also. In short, Noonan has much more room to be better longer.
     
  12. Khansingh

    Khansingh New Member

    Jan 8, 2002
    The Luton Palace
    Niether, it should be Kyle Martino.
     
  13. Tmagic77

    Tmagic77 Member+

    Feb 10, 2003
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    He's so good he can be a rookie two years in a row!
     
  14. UxSxAxfooty

    UxSxAxfooty Member+

    Jan 23, 2003
    Rochester, NY
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thanks Ty.
     
  15. JMMUSA8

    JMMUSA8 New Member

    Nov 3, 2001
    Webster
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i think considering Noonan didn't have Twellman the whole year and he was only one point behind Ralph should give the voters and idea on how much better Noonan is. Next year, I'll put money down that Twellman and Noonan will be better then Razov and Ralph. Both duo's scored a combined 25 goals this year, but Twellman and Noonan did it without each other. Noonan stepped up and showed his skill, I don't thinK Ralph could do that for the Fire. My vote is for Noonan, unless I can vote for Sharlie (part of the best midfield duo in the league).
     
  16. shuvy87

    shuvy87 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 17, 2003
    USA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Noonan!!!!

    look guys, you can argue that Ralph was consistant all year long.

    But the thruth is Noonan played less than Ralph, he had little palying time, while Joe-Max More, and Twellman were palying.

    Now Twellman and JMM is out, so Noonan is doing the job.

    If you look at the statistic in MLS Playy-off Media Guide. Noonan played 1646 min, 27 pts (1pt in 61.0 min) and Ralph played 1985 min, 28 pts (1pt in 70.9 min).

    And he had a hattrick. Go Noonan.
     
  17. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    Re: Noonan!!!!

    Ralph is a better player.
     
  18. JMMUSA8

    JMMUSA8 New Member

    Nov 3, 2001
    Webster
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Re: Noonan!!!!

    I seriously doubt he is. Noonan is more skilled and can take over the realms of the scorer, Ralph can't.
     
  19. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    Re: Re: Re: Noonan!!!!

    I doubt Noonan is more skilled but I have no idea what "can take over the realms of the scorer" actually means. I won't say you're wrong on that second point, at least until I understand what you're trying to say.

    I liken Noonan to a 'super sub,' only he's come into the second half of a season rather than second half of a game. Teams are tired, injured, out of playoff contention and used to playing JMM & Twellman. It makes for an easier field.

    Teams have had all season to stop Ralph and they haven't figured out how to do it legally. Sure, Hristo can trip him in the box, but Ralph still scored the only goal in the USOC Final.
     
  20. JMMUSA8

    JMMUSA8 New Member

    Nov 3, 2001
    Webster
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Noonan!!!!

    I didn't think it was too hard to understand but the "realms of the scorer" is taking over for the leading scorer. Ralph wouldn't have the year he had if Razov was injured the whole year, or a nice portion of it.

    The JMM - Twellman connection wasn't a regular thing this year, and even Noonan was contributing early in the season. Noonan racked up all his goals in the later part of the season mainly cause he loves to beat up on the Mutts.

    The scenario is this, Ralph and Noonan has practically the same stats, with Noonan having less minutes. On a team basis, Noonan did most of it without the #1 forward. Ralph didn't. Both duo's scored the same amount of goals. Now try to tell me Ralph is better.
     
  21. Jacen McCullough

    Nov 23, 1998
    Maryland
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Noonan!!!!


    Ralph is better. You make an assumption that Ralph couldn't be a good player without Razov. You also make the assumtion that Noonan can do anything against any team NOT named "Metrostars." Until both are proven, your argument has no merit. This is where it stands:

    Noonan has scored 7 of his 10 goals against the Metros.

    3 of those 7 were scored on a Metro defense that included Joe Addo, Juan Forchetti, Paul Grafer and countless rookies in the final garbage game of the year.

    Noonan looks like a good player, but until he can show that he can do that to the rest of the league on a regular basis, he's just not in the same league as Ralph.

    Andy Williams killed the Metros this year, while sucking or sitting the bench against every other team. Should he be the MVP?
     
  22. Coach_Barry

    Coach_Barry Member

    Aug 18, 2001
    Taunton, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Joseph has my vote too.
     
  23. soccertim

    soccertim Member

    Mar 29, 2001
    Mass
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Noonan!!!!

    Since Ralph has scored only once in over 2 months, maybe that, since the other teams are paying more attention to Ralph, he can't get much done. Until this unproven, your argument that Ralph is better has no merit. Many Metro fans were saying before the game that Noonan would go scoreless in the playoffs because Pope would shut him down. Didn't happen.

    And, scoring against the Metros isn't exactly like scoring against the Dallas Burn. Are you saying that the Metros are so much worse defensively than all of the other MLS teams that his goals should be discounted? The Metros gave up 33 goals in 30 games to players not named Noonan. Even if you ignore the hat trick, Noonan's 4 goals in 3 games is better than the Metros GAA for the season.

    BTW, Ralph scored a couple of goals against the Metros with Kenny Arena in the middle instead of Pope, and he had a goal and 2 assists against the Revs with Pierce, Llamosa, and Franchino all out. Those were the only two teams I checked. I think the assumption that Ralph's goals were more against stronger defenses than Noonan's were doesn't really hold up. It comes down to who you prefer: the guy that started out as a wide midfielder and who, after switching to forward, had a better strike rate than any of the league leaders, or someone who started out the year on fire and faded as the season went on.
     
  24. Chicago1871

    Chicago1871 Member

    Apr 21, 2001
    Chicago
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There is not question, in my mind at least, that the two best rookies were Ralph and Noonan. Watching both play it is easy to see that their skill extends beyond their years. Watching both play, however, Ralph just seems to have more of "it." Team biases aside, Ralph just seemed better, of course I also watched Ralph more than Noonan. From the first game I saw Ralph play in he looked like something special. I don't think there is a forward in the league better than Ralph with defenders draped on him...except Ruiz. Ralph has the power, the vision, and the skill to be an exceptional player. Noonan does as well, but I am not sure we'll ever see him head overseas, Ralph, if he can put together another 10+ goal season or two, will be off soon enough. I just see Ralph with more potential than Noonan.

    Of course there are a lot of "ifs" there, and I hope that Noonan proves me wrong, at least in the sense that he grows and contributes to the NT the way Twellman hasn't been able to yet.
     
  25. firstshirt

    firstshirt Member+

    Mar 1, 2000
    Ellington, CT / NK, RI
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Noonan!!!!

    Ba da bing!
     

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