I was just wondering what our esteemed BS referees thought of the passive offsides call on the second goal of the Real Madrid - Juventus CL game. Was that the correct call or were the two players offside on the side of the goal where the ball went "affecting" play?
I think it was the correct call. The players were offside, but I don't think they affected the play. I am guessing Buffon was primarily thinking about blocking the shot and not thinking about where the other players were on the field.
I saw the play, and I didn't have an opinion really about the call. The call he made was fine, but it wouldn't have been a bad call if the ref overturned the goal, either.
I know how they feel... Man, I sure can empathize with these refs. I was on lines this past weekend in a hotly contested U16 boys game. White springs an offside trap just prior to Red taking a 20 yard shot on goal from the far side of the PA. A red player on the near side and one in the center of the PA are both clearly 2-3 yards offside. The keeper deflects the shot which falls right to a player rushing in from the FAR side that I judged to be even when the shot was taken. He puts the ball in and scores the game winning goal 10 minutes from time. Of course, everyone (players, coaches, parents) associated with White went absolutely nuts. They were focused on the offside players on the near side and in the middle of the PA. Noone even bothered to listen to my explanation that they weren't involved in the play. I had to threaten to dismiss several parents from the field and tried desperately to wrangle the coach back into line for the final 10 minutes... And my call was only questioned by the 30 or so folks at our community park...not an international television audience.
I saw the play. The CR made the right call. The keeper had a good view of Roberto Carlos and the ball as it zipped past him. Where was the defense?
I thought it was the proper decision too. The GK was focused on the shot the whole way, as he should have been. None of the players in an offside position was interfering with play at all. It's plays like that which make me wish they'd dump that moron Tommy Smyth from ESPN so we wouldn't have to listen to him blather on and on like he knows what he's talking about.
I understand Tommy's comments during the game, but I do disagree with him about the keeper having to be worried about the three players in an offside position. The behind the goal shot clearly shows that the goalie had vision of the situation and Carlos when he took the shot. It was just a great shot, that the goalie couldn't get to. You can see from his reaction that he was tracking the ball all the way, regardless of the other players.
there may be other reasons to say you don't like Tommy (personally i enjoy him), but not this occasion. he may not have been particularly eloquent, but Tommy basically said that the CR got the call correct but that he wished the rule was different. he knew what he was talking about and was proposing a different standard. maybe one you don't like, but i'll grant him the right to have an opinion. personally, i'd let the goal stand. as noted by others, i didn't see anything to suggest the goalie was distracted. indeed, barring a fake pass to one of them, i don't think i'd ever disallow a goal on this basis. for those who disagree, answer this: why would a goalie (especially at this level) be distracted by players he believed to be in an offside position? he knows they can't score if the ball comes to them, so the only way to score is off the direct shot. if anything, it makes his job easier, even though the result remains picking the ball out of the ole onion bag.
If Robert Carlos has the ball and you're the keeper, you'd better be paying careful attention to him.
Actually, I don't disagree with you on the call, but I do believe a goalie (even at this level) could be distracted. (Responding to the hypothetical here, not addressing this particular case.) First, when a goalie is facing a shooter, s/he does not have the luxury of checking closely to see if the player(s) in peripheral vision are offside or onside. The peripheral vision may register the opponent's uniform color, but the keeper can't scan the field to see if a defender is keeping the unmarked player on. Second (related), the keeper usually is not positioned to see if a player is on or off (angles of vision, etc.). (There are more reasons, but I'll spare you all for now.) I agree the call was correct. I also concur with Tommy Smyth, et al., in disliking the way offsides is currently interpreted/applied.
What are you talking about Tommy Smyth clearly said the ref made the proper call. OK so you convinced that the Goalkeeper had the ball lined up . What about the defenders, or any of the other Juve players who were in the box at the time.They all count the way you are stating it only the keeper counts. Are you 100%sure that none of the defenders had a reaction.
When in doubt, you don't flag offside. It's not a matter of whether the defenders are affected by the existence of offside players, they must be impeded or screened by offside players for them to affect play enough for them to be called for offside.
Do not know where you got this rule from, but its not in the book. If a defender sees 2 player alongside him, moves several feet to ensure that these players are offside. then when the ball is played it goes thru the path where the defender stood and the goal is scored. That defender and the 2 attacker were involved in the play. If the attacker were not there the defender stops the ball and there is no score.
The call, and the rule, were and are silly. As has been pointed out above, (a) how can the goalkeeper possibly tell if players in front of him are or are not in offside positions, (b) even if he can, how does he know that the linesman will not blow the call, which happens at least 20-30% of the time, (c) how can three players in the goalmouth not be "interfering with play?"
As for where this "rule" came from -- the governing bodies frequently adjust the interpretations of the laws and pass them down through our annual recertification clinics and through position papers. In the situation you describe here, it could be argued that they were involved - if the shot goes right through 2 attackers - one or both may have screened part of the shot. By definition, that would make them involved and they would be flagged offside. But this does not appear to be the situation that happened in the recent CL game.