I am a paper communist. On paper i think it is a great idea, but i feel that it is doomed to fail. Discuss
Me too. Are you American isn't it a bit dangerous to say that over there. My problem with communism is that it has been used a smoked screen for depositive goverments. Communism could work if it was done in a democratic way. Lenin rejected democracy not Marx.
Free Speech is Fun. I dont think i could ever trust someone enough to run a true communist form of government
This is my point communism in my opion should not be a form of goverment but an objective of a democratic goverment.
It will never work without a government oppressing the people. Communism a great idea? Don't think so, it's a misbelief that all people are equal. I also wouldn't play the game of equal payment with someone uneducated who's cleaning the streets.
Didn't know that you want to go into detail. Nevertheless it is more than just a transition problem from paper to reality. The idea of communism bases on the book "Das Kapital" by Karl Marx. This book has many ideological mistakes and other wrong assumptions (e.g. outcome of work depends on workers only; progress and machines are not included). If you want to put it that way: it's a fiction novel that unfortunately by some is claimed to be a solution for the reality.
What I meant to say was that Communism doesn't work the way you stated. It doesnt reward the lazy or uneducated. What it does is bridge the gap on social classes. A doctor wont be making the same as a street cleaner, but he also wont be making 200X more. Just because its communism doesnt guarantee you a job either. If youre stagnant and wont work to your capabilities, youre out of the job. Simple as that. Many people also posted about freedom of speech. Does capitalism guarantee you this freedom of speech? No a democracy does. That has nothing to do with communism. You can have elected leaders, freedom of speech, religion, etc.. When in a communism environment. The example that you guys know of are why this thread got started. WHy Communism is good on paper and bad in real life. Because you see the abuse and misuse of it. Thats why we are saying its good on paper. If all you had to go by for capitalism is Arab kings and Enron excutives, then you will also think THAT sucks.
I agree with everything metrocorazon but what most people don't know about Marx's work is that even he recognised the important of capitalsim and knew that true communism can be achevied when the peak of global capaltism has been acheived and then the wealth should be distrubuted. One thing I don't think Marx covered is that people should be givin the same oppitunties in life reguardless of there social background. We are also heading towards communism where peoplle are startin to demand a narrowing of the social gap which has infused. But this is going agaisnt Marx path to communism as they are tryin to world the of gloal capitalism.
I always thought that Marx's dialectical materalism theory was highly debatable, as it has been proven that history can be interpreted as any number of Meta Narratives, e.g that all history has been the story of the rise of Liberialism, or feminisim and women's emancipation etc. If Marxism view that all history is the history of class struggle, concluding in the Socialist Utopia i.e it's destiny, is highly debatable then surley this means that Marx's writings are fundamentally flawed as well. There was also critism of the superstructure theory, but failed to pay proper attention to it at university and have forgotten. As for Marxism in practice , I always felt that his theory was incompatable with human nature, greed, selfishness, ambition, a need to believe in a define being, patriotism, individuality, competiveness, etc.. Or am I just talking crap?
Communism doesn't work in communes, so why would anyone expect it work effectively in large countries?
Marx was flawed he was for a joyless society almost. This is another thing that gets me what Marx wrote is not the be all and end all of communism. If a country wants to turn into a democratic communian then they need to find a way that they can implement it into thier own socieity. Obie Communism never worked becasue the always had dictorships which relied on deposistism.
I am also a paper communist. I think we should all make as much paper as we can, and whenever anyone needs paper, they can take some.
No it has shown that men will use the idealolgy of communism and corrupt those belifs to thier own selfish needs.
i think capitalism sucks, i that it has flaws, i think that our gov is messed up, i dont think that communism would work, because i think even i would abuse my power if i was in charge of a communist form of government. "Some animals are more equal than others"
It was a nice idea in its time. Typically in the 19th century the workers would lead a hand-to-mouth existence while the factory owners and adminstrators (i.e. white collar middle class & above) would be wealthy. The idea that people could work together for the common good rather than just for personal gain is a noble one - it's just a there's a rather huge spanner in the works in that human nature ensures it doesn't work. An example would be a two football teams. One purely capitalist with players on individual bonues for scoring goals/whatever only (i.e. no win bonus, just what they achieve). The odds are you'd get strikers who'd always go for goal themselves rather than pass to better placed teammates as they'd only be interested in their bonus and not really care what happens to the other players. The communist team (in this idealistic/unrealistic world) would only have win & draw bonuses to play for and theoretically would work as a team to help one another. The problem being that communism is rather inefficient, so the goverment decides to make each football team have 50 players rather than 11, but keep the team's win bonus the same. There is now less incentive to win as the rewards will be much less. There'll also be a broader skill level but the good players will get discouraged as being 50 a side their skills have little impact and their extra efforts gain little reward. Players who aren't so good know they can hide in the team and get away with a minimum of effort. Communism is flawed and just will not work on a national scale, but it does have its good points and those shouldn't be overlooked just because a number of military dictators have used it as a vehicle to build their own power. Remember there are, and have been, pretty unpleasant capitalist dictatorships too.
> because i think even i would abuse my power if i > was in charge of a communist form of government. Not just you. Jesus' apostles and other followers tried to create a commune after Jesus croaked. It fell apart because the regular followers became upset that the apostles were mooching more of the stuff than was their share.
I think it kind of stands to reason that anyone who wants to be a dictator is not the sort of person who should be running a country (communist or capitalist - Iraq is not communist after all, nor is Zimbabwe to name but two)
I don't think marxism will work. But there are certain ideas behind it that are 100% correct. It's absurd that some 'top manager' makes half a million in a year while others work their ass off for a wage they can hardly live on. I firmly believe in a more honest distribution of wealth. You can have all the education you want... nobody's work is worth that much. No man has the right to live in a house with 25 bedrooms and 18 bathrooms, have 5 cars parked outside etc, etc.
There's a lot of people in West Virgina that would disagree with not being allowed to have five cars out front. Sorry, just could not resist. I don't personally mind that Bill Gates has Billions in Wealth. But if it is found that a person broke the law to obtain the wealth then it should be seized just like they do to drug dealers.
I have mixed feelings on this. If somebody has taken a gamble and set up a business then why shouldn't he reap the rewards? People moan about Bill Gates, but how many jobs has he created worldwide? It must be thousands. The ones that annoy me a managers who are hired, do sod all for a couple of years, then leave or move sideways adding no contribution at all to the company - but that's just my own bitter view from experience.
Actually it fell apart because of the persecution of Christians by the Saducees, most ran away to Antiochy. And finally because of the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans.