Palmeiro suspended for steroid violation

Discussion in 'Baseball' started by JohnnyCash, Aug 1, 2005.

  1. JohnnyCash

    JohnnyCash New Member

    Jan 23, 2004
    NOrVA
  2. Motterman

    Motterman Member

    Jul 8, 2002
    Orlando, FL
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  3. riverplate

    riverplate Member+

    Jan 1, 2003
    Corona, Queens
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    He stupid can he be?

    Or is this one of these "They'll never catch me!" ego trips.
     
  4. Mr. Bee

    Mr. Bee New Member

    Feb 2, 2005
    Buzzing Around
    Club:
    Wolverhampton Wanderers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Say goodbye to Cooperstown. What a damn shame.
     
  5. Metros Striker10

    Metros Striker10 New Member

    Jul 7, 2001
    Planet Earth
    Ahh...now the truth comes out. Sorry, but I don't believe any of those guys who went before congress. Sosa hasn't done anything this season. Bonds is gonna retire. He's never going to come back. Why? Because if he does and hits poorly, people will automatically accuse him for steriod use.

    I think we can tell who has been the big roid users, and those who used it very little. Giambi is back and is hitting well. Some may accuse him for using steroids recently, but he had some tough injuries to cure last year, and it takes awhile for the roid affects to go away. Same thing with Sheffy. He's still putting up the numbers he had when he was being accused for sterioids. Bonds, Sammy, and Palmerio are the only active guys who have used the stuff. Just think about it, Palermio is an old dude who needed to get that 3,000 hit. It only makes sense that he used steriods to keep his game up, because a cold spell from him, would probably lead to a benching.
     
  6. J Mac

    J Mac New Member

    May 25, 2004
    Philadelphia
    :eek: Jose Conseco was right.
     
  7. Mr. Bee

    Mr. Bee New Member

    Feb 2, 2005
    Buzzing Around
    Club:
    Wolverhampton Wanderers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is one of those items that really reinforce my idea that steroids don't mean a whole lot when it comes to performance.

    Anybody who's seen Raffy's swing knows that it doesnt come with steroids, you can buy something that makes a swing that perfect. It may have given him the homeruns, it almost certainly destroys his shot for cooperstown, but it doesnt take anything away from that swing.
     
  8. CyphaPSU

    CyphaPSU Member+

    Mar 16, 2003
    Not Far
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And I thought that he was one of a very few guys who was actually telling the truth..........

    He's a member on the anti-steroids No Tolorance Committee :rolleyes:

    He's set to lose $163,934.42 during this suspension. Man, that 42 cents are going to hurt.
     
  9. 655321

    655321 New Member

    Jul 21, 2002
    The Mission, SF
    Whoa, whoa, whoa...let me get this right. Giambi and Sheffield used them very little?
     
  10. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    He says that the arbitrator found that he "did not use a banned substance intentionally" and that "he made a mistake." Unless the arbitrator chooses to challenge that statement, I suppose we must believe him...

    But that leads to the question "Why not tell the whole story?" Could it possibly be worse than what is already happening? Everyone who wants to see evil is going to say/already saying "see, they're all liars," so why wouldn't he at least tell us he was too dumb to find out whats in "Mighty Mike's Muscle Juice" before he drank it or whatever?
     
  11. Metros Striker10

    Metros Striker10 New Member

    Jul 7, 2001
    Planet Earth
    Whatever they did...they are still able to put up the numbers they did when they supposedly used it. Sheffy is still a powerful hitter and Giambi is finally getting back to top physical shape and is hitting very well (14 hrs in July, plus several important doubles and singles that help the Yankees win games).
     
  12. Metros Striker10

    Metros Striker10 New Member

    Jul 7, 2001
    Planet Earth
    I don't believe him one bit. These guys are being paid millions. Why would you take something that your buddy gave you, knowing that you will most likely lose your HOF status? I give him no credit whatsoever.

    Canseco was right. He got all that bad plublicity because he was giving people the impression that he was out looking for money. He did seem annoying at the time, but he was right. Before Congress, McGwire didn't want to talk about he past andSosa couldn't speak English (yet he was able to step up to the plate and take the Pepsi challenge several times). Lastly, Bonds just gave up on the season.
     
  13. writered21

    writered21 Member+

    Jul 14, 2001
    Middle of the Road
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So, in one post, you are arguing that you can tell who did a lot of steroids and who did a little, because Giambi and Sheffield are hitting. But are still implying they did them, yet you laud what Giambi did in July.

    Now you asking why people paid millions would take steroids and that you give them no credit whatsoever.

    Which is it? Is it OK to only do a "little" steroids?
     
  14. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    Is there an actual reason why these four sentences appear in the same paragraph?
     
  15. 655321

    655321 New Member

    Jul 21, 2002
    The Mission, SF
    Fair enough.

    I no longer give Bonds the benefit of the doubt, but I say you should let him come back (which he will) and judge him on his performance and size then before assuming anything. He was 'big' for an awful long time w/out any significant injuries, something that does not point towards hardcore or long term steriod abuse.
     
  16. Metros Striker10

    Metros Striker10 New Member

    Jul 7, 2001
    Planet Earth
    I want him to come back. But personally, I doubt it. Earlier this year, he said he was gonna quit on the season because he was tired of having the media blame him for steriods. Sorry pal, but when you're 40, hitting more home runs then ever before, and you're mentioned in a book about sterioids, people are gonna second guess you. A true athlete would accept the media, and come back and prove them wrong. This reminds me of when Sosa said he would be first in line if they tested for sterioids. A reporter asked him to go ahead and take a test, and prove to everyone that he's clean. The good ol' Sosa responded by saying that the guy isn't his dad.

    writered21, Giambi and Sheffy have proven that without steriods, they can play just as well. Sheffy has been batting .300 or above just about the whole year. Once in a while he'll drop to .280. Giambi, who has been injured for the past two seasons (leg and eye injuries), struggled at the beginning. Now he looks like Giambi of old. He came out and confessed. He's been given a second chance, and is using it. Palmerio has been caught, and Sosa hasn't put up good numbers. Bond is still "injured." How can you not see the difference?
     
  17. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    One of the few players I believe in all this mess, actually, is Sheffield. Helped by the fact that he's never hit that many home runs, was always an amazing athelete, and relies on the speed of his swing more than anything else (which steroids won't necessarily help you with.)
    Giambi? "very little"? ROTLFMAO.
     
  18. 655321

    655321 New Member

    Jul 21, 2002
    The Mission, SF
    Bonds has been playing the game for well over 20 years and his knees are giving out. Is the timing a bit fishy? You bet. But is it strange to have crummy knees at the age of 40 after playing ball for as long as he has? Not at all.
     
  19. Metros Striker10

    Metros Striker10 New Member

    Jul 7, 2001
    Planet Earth
    True. What I have found fishy is the part where he has been healthy ever since his home run craze, but as soon as the steriod testing came along, he's out for the year.
     
  20. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    He's played 150 games or more once since 1999. He missed 32 games in 2003...

    And he played 147 last year-- which is when testing started.
     
  21. Metros#1

    Metros#1 New Member

    May 14, 2001
    NJ
    I think there is an interesting question so far I found no one had addressed.

    If one of the main effects of steroid is to help healing so people can train faster and better, then when people who had been relying on steroid, like Bonds & Giambi, stopped taking it, wouldn't their bodies become more prone to breakdowns?

    In other words, if steroid helped 39-yr old Bonds healed like a 19-yr old, by not taking steroid (after taking it for years), the 40-yr old Bonds suddenly became prone to breakdowns like a 50-yr old. Does it make sense?
     
  22. ProfZodiac

    ProfZodiac Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 17, 2003
    Boston, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Are you kidding? The fact that he just abruptly started crushing the ball makes him more suspicious of steroid use. Who's to say he and Sheffield didn't just find a currently undetectable?

    Take off the pinstripe-colored glasses for a moment. If you were a Dodgers fan, for example, you see a guy who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn for the first three months of the season. Five home runs over those three months. Averages of .224 and .241 over the first two months. And then, suddenly, a month-long hot streak? His SLG more than doubles his season high. And you would say this guy 'just got in shape'? He's not David Wells - it doesn't take this guy months to get in full shape.
     
  23. skipshady

    skipshady New Member

    Apr 26, 2001
    Orchard St, NYC
    Well, conventional wisdom is that players are prone to breakdowns while they're on 'roids because they're carrying so much mass and the ligaments aren't strong enough to handle it. Or something like that.

    Obviously, different bodies react differently, but generally, I don't think a player's any more prone to injuries after they stop taking steroids than while they're on it.
     
  24. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    The history of baseball is replete with such events-- nothing odd about it at all, particularly when there have been health issues involved. Giambi's OBP was absurdly high throughout the bad months, indicating that his command of the strike zone was as good as ever; they just weren't throwing him any strikes... Same thing happened to George Brett the first few months after his .390 season-- no one else was hitting, and they just offered him the chance to get himself out and lived with the walk when if wouldn't do it...his BA was nowhere for 8 or ten weeks, but eventually the rest of the lineup got going and he got some pitches to hit and wound up at .314...

    Kirby Puckett hit 4 home runs in 1200 plus at bats in 84 and 85; the pitchers saw the short arms and round belly and figured he couldn't inside-out the ball at all and pitched him inside inside inside for two years... after he blocked the ball over third base for enough singles to get to 199 hits in 1985, they decided to try the outside corner in 86, and he got to extend his arms and he hit 31 HR in 680 at bats...

    The sudden reappearance of/increase in Hank Aaron's power at age 34 or 5 is easily explained by the team's move to the Launching Pad-- he didn't start taking steroids, he moved to a good ballpark for him...

    And so on and so forth... if Giambi's OBP had been .315 during his down months, you'd have a case; but he simply wasn't seeing any good pitches, and getting himself out when he got impatient and swung at bad ones... major league hitters will get hits on pitcher's pitches sometimes-- but rarely extra base hits, so when you only swing at bad pitches your SLG will go in the dumper... until you start seeing some good ones...

    It was ridiculous of people to think that Giambi would have been a bad hitter without steroids; no one is helped that much. If they were, either: A. Jeremy Giambi would have been a star too or B. the young Jeremy Giambi wouldn't have been able to play little league...

    What I don't understand is, given the mystical powers that people attribute to the juice, why don't we hear accusations at other "great leap forward" folks? Where's the hate for Derreck Lee, LuGo, Brady Anderson, Wade Boggs' 1987, etc. Why is it unversally agreed that Junior is clean? Andres Gallaraga?

    Heck, Cal Ripken was all over the place in his career; 1991 looks pretty funny between 1990 and 1992, there... looks fishy to me :cool:
     
  25. skipshady

    skipshady New Member

    Apr 26, 2001
    Orchard St, NYC
    From what I've read about Giambi, he's incredibly insecure and his whole tattooed/shaggy haired biker look in Oakland was a facade to make himself look tougher. It wouldn't surprise me if steroids didn't help him physically that much, but gave him a psychological edge. Or says the devil's advocate.
     

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