P40s and New Developmental Spots

this should help down the stretch as players get injured. of course, it'll also help when dealing with national team callups.

 

I'm glad MLS added two exempt slots. Savvy teams should be able to use these slots to their advantage. Hopefully we're one of them.

 

This is positive stuff.

They need to increase the pool for the expansion in 2004, and they need to slot the kids who are coming out early to have a shot at the Olympics.

But mostly, MLS can't be limited to 180 players - there's just too much talent out there. Take out the foreigners and the quasi-foreigners and there are still precious few Americans making a decent living playinf soccer.

The best part: a couple more per team and we can start talking about having reserve sides. I will drink myself into a stupor on THAT lovely day. It'll mean we've arrived.

 

so would P40 be dissolved, or would it evolve into reserves?

 

I'm in total agreement with Bill here about how good this is and is moving in the right direction for reserve squads. My only concern is how deep is the P-40 pool going to be once we do go through the expansion? Do we even know when the expansion cities are to be announce? I mean, putting a team together takes some time.

IMO, when we do start having reserve teams, then I think P-40 will disolve in name. The function of it will still be need. There will be a need for an organizer to plan out the reserve squad schedules and to deal with all of the related issues. P-40 has some experience that would be beneficial to that.

 

With the P40's, I agree. They originally had a P40 A League team but the logistics were a nightmare, there were of course no "home" games and the coaches had to wait until like Thursday or Friday to see which players would be released from their MLS side for the game that weekend. (Plus, at that point the league was having to fork over for super-expensive last minute air tickets, if any were even available)

So they bagged it.

But if each MLS team had even 8 of these "developmental" type players, you could combine a couple squads (Crew/Fire would be a bitch eh?) and be able to give the kids some quality games instead of nothing but a steady dose of training.

Like in England, they'd probably draw about 150 fans, but I know a bunch of you guys would be there at Obetz with me.


As for stadiums, from all indications, Rochester is a lock. The reason is that they've gotten the stadium on the rails again with the County donating the land and the State providing some cash.

So even if the Rhinos didn't draw 10,000 fans for A League games, which certainly bodes well for MLS, but they also have done what the league keeps saying they want: build a building.

So when somebody actually DOES build one, MLS can't very well say "Well, but we didn't mean YOU necessarily"

The other one will come from one of Oklahoma City, Portland and Seattle.

OKC seems to be on the verge of putting up a SSS as well, and if they do, the same scenario applies.

If not, Paul Allen, mega-billionaire ex-Microsoft guy, apparently wants to put a team into the building he just put up for the Seahawks (which he also owns). Apparently it was designed with conversion to soccer in mind, and they claim it downsizes well to 30,000 seats.

If neither of those work out, then Portland looks likely - the league needs a presence in the Pacific Northwest and the Timbers have always done well, going back even to NASL days.

 

Rochester may only be about the size of Dayton, but boy do they love their Rhinos. I think they'd be an excellent addition to MLS.

MLS roster sizes are starting to get respectable. Add two more non-developmental players, and you've got a decent sized squad.

 

Would you be willing to pay to see a reserve squad play? Maybe it's just soccer withdrawal, but I'd be willing to pay 10 bucks, what the heck.

 

Ten MLS teams with more than a few non-American players on the rosters is, indeed, too few to sustain American soccer. Expanding the rosters is a step in the right direction. But more is needed. More teams -- expansion or some different relationship with the A-league,perhaps even amalgamation with the A-league. Even more restrictions on foreigners -- no more than 3-4 players who do not qualify for the American national team on each roster.

 

1. So Bill, would the Rhinos just jump from the A-league to MLS or what? If they did, how would the expansion draft work for them since they already have players. I guess it would depend on which of them signed a contract with MLS, but that would be interesting to see happen. It would however provide a very good NY state rivalry...

2. I think I would pay $5 max to watch a reserve squad. I pay $10 now for the Crew full side, why pay the same for half the product? I'm not get the CCS experience in the price, so forget it.

3. doctorjim... uh buddy, I think you're waaaaaaay off. Most of the time since MLS has been around, it's been 10 teams... more or less. Even during the 12 team times, there were always a sucker team or two that I would barely say would "sustain American soccer". With all of that considered, can you remember how we did in the World Cup? Could you refresh my memory? With the proposed expansion in 2004 and with the state of things at the moment, I think we are in fine shape, and don't need to make some kind of radical changes. This isn't the Reichs Liga (ala WW2) or something.

 

i'm thinking the reserve side would most likely play at obetz, with maybe a few doubleheaders at CCS with the full side.

with that said, obetz admission should be $2 for under 13, $5 for age 13 and up. or something like that, that's how i see it.

 

I mean seriously, it would be like attending High School sports, and how much did that cost? I can't even remember. And they could even work something out for season ticket holders to get in for super cheap. I mean, I think you would want to charge a bit just to cover the operation costs in part.

 

yeah, HS sports are around $6 adults / $5 students / $3 for k-8 kids. with the individual leagues setting the prices for the regular season games, that can vary, but those prices seem average.

 

If you look at the number of MLS roster spots available for young American players and compare it with the number of promising American players that come out of high school and college each year, you see that, before long, many promising players will be unable to find a place in MLS. I haven't checked, but I would guess that remarkably few of the players drafted in 2002 actually stayed on a MLS roster. The two new rosters spots help address this -- to the tune of 20 more slots. And some players will end up in the A-league, but not as many, I suspect, as one might think. A-league teams have, I think, fewer restrictions on foreign players than does MLS.

For American soccer to continue to grow, it needs to expand the opportunities to play professionally and to play against high quality opposition. If only a few obviously elite players can move from college or high school to a professional team that offers the opportunity to improve one's game, American soccer will lose all sorts of good players. Despite the fact that the American players (the ones who finish college) are older than European players when they enter professional soccer, it is still true that it is hard to identify the players who could become high class players. The more professional teams or the more slots available on professional teams the greater chance that some of these other promising players will get a chance to improve their skills and their overall game. And that will make the American game that much stronger and competitive.

Think about it -- England has 80-90 full fledged professional teams for a population much smaller than the US. So many more opportunities to play and to develop.

 

Maybe somebody can tell me how much it costs to attend a reserve match in England.

As for the Rhinos, and the other A League mention above, the problem is that A League is part of USL.

USL is not a league in any meaningful sense. USL is wholly owned and operated by Francisco Marcos (Frank to his freinds, and probably to his wife's lawyers after he got his girlfreind pregnant and fled to Portugal last year to "revisit his soccer roots" and also, coincidentally, avoid process servers)

Currently, you pay Frank $450,000 plus a $200k line of credit for an A League Franchise.

DIII is like $125,000/50,000, and a PDL franchise will run you $45,000/15,000.

But it doesn't go to some national federation, or a board or a public organization.

It goes to Frank.

So there's really no way to "move up" or anything. You'd really have to start over.

I think.

But the good news for Frank is that he won't have to give you your money back. The contract says that if you choose not to field a team for a season, you lose your rights.

 

In England as well, it's the main sport, it's been around for over 100 years, and the investors aren't losing money.

It's kind of hard to pay more players, when you've lost over 200 million dollars in 8 years.

If they expand the rosters too much, they'll start losing money and the quality of play will go down. People won't go see a league with low play quality.

Here's how it happens.

1) Quality of play goes up
2) Rosters increase
3) League starts making money
4) Stadiums get built
5) Expansion into new cities

 

MLS announced today that they have "released" Edson Buddle and Kyle Martino from the Pro-40 program.

Suppose this means we gotta pay them real money now.

 

Are you aware of the financial difficulties facing many clubs in England, Premiership on down? The collapse of TV rights and the skyricketing of wages and tranfer fees has left a number of clubs deep in the red.

Financial difficulties among sports teams is something that spans the globe and sporting spectrum (NHL, MLB, etc.)

 

Only somewhat related...whatever happened with that central Ohio youth team that the Crew were sponsoring (for lack of a better word)? After last season's announcement I never heard anything else.

 

Didn't NAC Breda do a free transfer for Earnie Stewart because they were in financial difficulties???

 

splarg says between nothing and 3 pounds.

 

DrJim,
If the quality of league play drops you'll have more empty stadiums and no International Tournaments/friendlies. MLS's primary objective is to return $s back to the investors by increasing revenues.

If you look at the number of MLS roster spots available for young American players and compare it with the number of promising American players that come out of high school and college each year, you see that, before long, many promising players will be unable to find a place in MLS. I haven't checked, but I would guess that remarkably few of the players drafted in 2002 actually stayed on a MLS roster. The two new rosters spots help address this -- to the tune of 20 more slots

Many promising players can never play at the professional level. Pro sports are not designed to develop the sport -- they're FAN entertainment.

For American soccer to continue to grow, it needs to expand the opportunities to play professionally and to play against high quality opposition. If only a few obviously elite players can move from college or high school to a professional team that offers the opportunity to improve one's game, American soccer will lose all sorts of good players

American Soccer needs to prove to the world (and US citizens) that MLS is a top quality PROFESSIONAL league worthy of International respect. TV $s and non-soccer fan respect follow. MLS doesn't even have the full respect of all Soccer players in this country yet. Expanding would dilute the quality of play and soon no one would care.

Think about it -- England has 80-90 full fledged professional teams for a population much smaller than the US. So many more opportunities to play and to develop.

They also don't have MLB, NFL (to any extent), NHL, etc. The fan base is entirely different. The 80-90 teams are of varying quality and are there becase of FAN interest. e.g The NHL has dramatically increased hockey interest in Central Ohio and generated numerous HS and Club teams. Development and opportunity followed and grew from exposure to top quality competition and talent. Pre NHL, hockey was a much smaller player and fan base. Minor league hockey never generated the wave of interest the NHL does. Development followed Pemier quality play.
Perhaps this might seem chicken vs. egg to you, but it seems pretty clear you need to import some high quality chickens to help fill your coup initially-- and build a taste for eggs.

 

http://www.firereserves.com/2002ticket.html

also from Chelsea's website:

 

Healthy American soccer --meaning both competitive American national teams and a prosperous soccer industry -- that is professional teams that at least break even -- requires American players. A professional league filled with foreign players will accomplish neither. After all, we have already had one major professional league dominated by foreign players and it was a resounding flop.

In order to motivate young athletes and young soccer players to choose soccer as a career, there have to be jobs for them --jobs that pay a reasonable wage. MLS risks limiting the possible jobs to the point that very few will choose professional soccer as their goal. Expanding the number of teams and limiting the number of foreign players are common sense means to accomplish this and are measures adopted in many countries -- certainly the limitations on foreign players.

Comparisons with English soccer are a bit tricky, but the English experience suggests that the MLS model may be somewhat flawed. Many English clubs outside the Premiership are relatively small affairs with modest stadiums and a local fan base. Many cities in the US could support a professional soccer club along these lines. In that sense, the A-league, despite whatever issues exist regarding its current management, looks like part of the long-term solution. Expecting a 10 or 12 team league with precarious finances to propel American soccer to the "next level" may be a mite ambitious. Certainly American soccer needs "big" clubs in major markets, but there is room, even a need, for other clubs in middle-size and smaller markets for a healthy industry.